EP 95: Breaking Beauty Barriers: Hue's Revolutionary Approach to Representation
Sylvan Guo, Nicole Clay, and Janvi Shah, the co-founders of Hue, share their personal experiences and challenges as entrepreneurs of color.
Hue makes it easy for beauty brands or retailers to source and embed authentic and inclusive user-generated video reviews on e-commerce. Hue is on a mission to ensure that all people, regardless of skin tone, age, or gender feel included in beauty.
The company has been recognized across industry publications such as ELLE, Forbes, WWD, and has been recognized as a 2022 ELLE Future of Beauty Winner. Hue's mission is to help shoppers feel represented when buying beauty products.
Hue is revolutionizing the beauty industry by focusing on diversity and inclusivity in marketing and branding. The co-founders highlight the importance of representation and how it has shaped their journey in the tech space. By embedding authentic video reviews on the brand's DTC shopping experience, and leveraging a community of diverse influencers to generate UGC, Hue allows prospective online buyers to browse video reviews of “others similar to them” and actually see how the product looks and feels on lots of different skin types, body types, and hues.
As women of color, they have had to overcome societal norms and cultural expectations to find their voice and assertiveness in the business world. But, with their unwavering perseverance and support for one another, they have shattered barriers and paved the way for a more inclusive beauty industry.
The co-founders discuss their educational backgrounds and the importance of finding role models who align with one's own leadership style. Nicole Clay shares an inspiring story of how her success impacted her family and community. As the first in her family to attend Harvard, she sent her loved ones a care package with Harvard gear. Seeing her family proudly wear those items in their low-income community in Detroit meant the world to her and showcased the significance of staying true to oneself.
Listen to their authentic stories now.
Episode Highlights
01:59 Hue: Bringing Diversity to Marketing and Branding through Short-Form Video Content
The co-founders of Hue discuss their mission to help shoppers feel represented when buying beauty products through diverse content on brands' websites.
04:55 The Co-Founders' Background and Inspiration for Starting Hue
The co-founders share their personal experiences and motivations for creating a company that focuses on diverse representation in the beauty industry.
08:47 Defining Beauty and the Importance of Self-Expression and Authenticity
The co-founders discuss how beauty is a form of self-expression and self-care, emphasizing the importance of embracing authenticity in the industry.
09:30 — Beauty as an Expression of Inner Self Beauty is not just about physical appearance, but also about the energy and confidence that someone exudes through their choice of beauty products and personal style.
11:16 — Overcoming Cultural Barriers as Entrepreneurs The co-founders discuss the challenges they faced as women of color in the tech space, including the need to overcome cultural values of humility and learn to promote themselves and their brand.
17:42 — The Importance of Representation and Mentors The co-founders highlight the profound impact that mentors who share their cultural background had on their personal growth and development as entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of representation in leadership roles.
18:56 The impact of role models on entrepreneurship and finding authentic leadership styles.
20:13 The meaningful stories and impact of Hue's work in diverse representation and inclusivity in beauty.
23:33 The importance of representation across age groups and the emotional impact on customers.
28:23 — Ripple Effect of Representation The co-founder discusses the impact of her Harvard acceptance on her low-income community and the importance of representation.
29:30 — Conflicted Motivations The co-founder shares her conflicted feelings about attending Harvard and whether she did it for herself or for her parents.
34:13 — Authenticity and ValueThe co-founder reflects on the importance of being authentic and creating value, rather than conforming to beauty standards or societal expectations.
37:14 — The importance of continuous growth and progress The speakers discuss the significance of ongoing learning and growth, especially in the context of social media, where only the highlight reels are showcased.
40:44 — Embracing one's unique cultural identity The co-founder, Sylvan, shares his experience of embracing both his Asian and American identities, highlighting the beauty of being part of two distinct cultures.
42:00 — Believing in oneself and deserving a seat at the table Nicole Clay emphasizes the importance of not doubting one's worth and capabilities as an entrepreneur, stating that everyone deserves a seat at the table and should embrace their value.
Links Mentioned:
Wild Hearted Words - Strategic branding and content marketing agency for female entrepreneurs of color
Link: wildheartedwords.com/shop
Hue - A platform that helps shoppers feel represented when buying beauty products
Link: https://www.poweredbyhue.com/
Get a free five-minute guided audio practice with affirmations and intention-setting to break through barriers and create the life of your dreams.
Link: wildheartedwords.com/money
Transcript:
Speaker 1 (00:00:02) - Welcome to the F*ck Saving Face podcast, where we're empowering mental and emotional health for Asian Americans and voices of color by breaking through taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Make your story beautiful today. In case you're new to this show, my name is Judy Tsuei and I'm the founder of Wild Hearted Words. We are a strategic branding and content marketing agency, and we focus on working with female entrepreneurs of color to create sustainable six figure success. If you'd like to experience what it's like to work with me, you can sign up for my latest masterclass that's available on my website at Wild Hearted Words. Com Forward Slash shop. It's called Overcoming Challenges and Traumas Through Mindset Shifts and Manifestation. And when you sign up for the audio course, that's about an hour. You'll also get a bonus PDF filled with incredible affirmations that you can practice every day to welcome in the life you'd like to have. For a limited time, the course is now only $19. Again, go to Wild Heart Awards.
Speaker 1 (00:01:07) - Com forward slash shop. Now on to the episode. I'm really excited for today's interview because it's not just with one person, it's with a total of three guests. And so we have the co-founders of Hue, and I will turn it over to the co-founders to share a bit more about the company. But in short, we'll also just say as a background, we all were introduced to one another because we made it into the 2023 Tory Burch Foundation Fellowship. And so that's how I met Sullivan. And when she was sharing her introduction, I was like, I would love to have you on the podcast talking about bringing this diverse element to marketing and branding through short form video content. And I will get into the details of that when I turn it over. But we have here today, Sylvan Guo, Nicole Clay and Janvi Shah, and I'm going to turn it over to Sylvan first to share about what the company is and how it came to be.
Speaker 2 (00:01:59) - Yeah, thank you, Judy. So excited to be here and chat about all things beauty and representation.
Speaker 2 (00:02:06) - So I'm Sylvan and what we're working on at Hue is really just helping shoppers feel represented when they're buying beauty products. And so, you know, we've all shopped online before and sometimes it's just really hard to find the right products. And that's actually how we started the company. I'm Asian American, Chinese, American, Indian American, and Nicole is African American. And, you know, we really came together because we felt that shopping online for our skin tones, for our skin concerns, for our hair types, it was just also, you know, difficult and overwhelming. And what we actually found when we interviewed real people was that actually a lot of people shop by looking for people like them. So if I'm an Asian woman, I may see another Asian woman and say, oh, you know, she did that eye color and she did her makeup that way. I can do it that way. And so we really came together really around the central mission of helping people see themselves represented in that shopping journey.
Speaker 2 (00:03:12) - And so what we do, we work with brands. So we'll work with beauty brands such as we're working with Credo, Beauty, Lawless Beauty and others, and we basically help them bring diverse content on their website. So, you know, think about it, that you're shopping online, you're, you know, trying to go out with your girlfriends for a night out. You're looking for a new lipstick shade and basically you want to see how does this look like on a real person, on someone like me? And so what we do is we actually will bring a lot of that content on the website. So you'll be able to see people of different ages of different ethnicities, different skin tones, all of that actually, you know, give a really honest video review and testimonial on their experience with the product. And so that's a little bit more. We work with beauty brands across makeup, skin care, hair care and fashion. And so, you know, we're just really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:04:08) - That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:04:09) - We were just in my friends and I were just in the bay in Mexico and one of them had this amazing eyeshadow and everything. And my Asian friend looked at her and was like, I'm going to need you to do a tutorial on me of like how you're able to do that, which is really interesting what you were saying, because I feel like, you know, because our eye shape is different or like growing up, it was always like I did not have the fold in my eyelid that a lot of American faces like Caucasian faces have. And so how do you apply makeup when you're not seeing that represented? So I'd love to turn it over to your co-founders and kind of share how the both of you got into it, because I love that you are all coming from a different cultural background. And so what inspired you to move into this space? This is Janvi and yeah, I was so.
Speaker 2 (00:04:55) - Fortunate to meet Nicole and Sylvan during our MBA at.
Speaker 1 (00:04:59) - Harvard.
Speaker 2 (00:05:00) - A little bit of my background is still been mentioned.
Speaker 2 (00:05:02) - I'm Indian American, so also Asian American. And we were actually talking.
Speaker 1 (00:05:06) - About this.
Speaker 2 (00:05:07) - Earlier. That kind of the Asian experience.
Speaker 1 (00:05:10) - Is actually very diverse and.
Speaker 2 (00:05:12) - Sylvan and I come from pretty different backgrounds actually, like even culturally family wise. And sometimes I feel like as a South Asian.
Speaker 1 (00:05:20) - I, South Asian sometimes get missed in the representation of.
Speaker 3 (00:05:24) - When you think about Asian. And almost I didn't even identify even personally as Asian growing up because when people said Asian, they would always think like East Asian. So that's a little bit about my background. But also similarly had that experience growing up and not seeing myself represented in traditional media or in the beauty sphere, but really kind of growing up with influencers and like YouTube, that kind of transformed how I thought about my own beauty experience and seeing myself represented. So that's how I came to this as well. Awesome. And this is Nicole speaking, so I am African American. I similarly to what Javi was saying, I struggle quite a bit about how I showed up in spaces, so I have a deeper skin tone.
Speaker 3 (00:06:11) - I have. Or see if you believe in the hair type on classifications like 4 to 4, a hair type. And growing up, I was raised in like the era of like Cosmo and l l Teen or whatever it may be, and I did not see myself represented and I struggled quite a bit as a child to feel comfortable with myself. And I always think that if I had a tool like ours or even the community where there were other people like myself that were deemed beautiful or who were like the examples of what beauty should be, then that would have helped my self-esteem quite a bit growing up. And then I fast forward to time today, like, how did I sort of get here with you? My background. I worked at L'Oreal for about seven years before starting Hue, and I also saw within those organizations like what diversity and inclusion truly meant to them in terms of the models they were selecting, the images that they were putting out and how they chose, like the images in the magazines that little 12 year old girls were seeing.
Speaker 3 (00:07:12) - And it's just still the industry has such a long way to go that approaching it from the tech side, but also approaching it with a fresh approach and being unafraid to show what true diversity is through. Technology was such an opportunity that I know both customers need, but also the brands need as well.
Speaker 1 (00:07:29) - I love you said true diversity because I also worked at Neutrogena, you know, Murad Gothy rancor, like all of these big beauty brands. And so it was always pretty homogenous in terms of like what was beautiful. And as someone who recovered from an eating disorder, like I started in high school, I battled it for like almost two decades that I very much know. And recently my daughter, who's eight, I've always strived for a body positive experience at home and not really focused on like the physical in terms of identifying size or anything like that, because I never wanted her to spend all of her days or hours worried about the number on the scale or on a dress. And yet at the age of eight, she said to me one day, getting out of the shower, my thighs are too fat.
Speaker 1 (00:08:12) - And I was like, What happened here? How did someone who was so intentional about that still experience that with my daughter? So I'm curious for your personal experience and your professional experience. How would you define beauty? What would you say beauty is like in this element of where we are now moving towards more diversity?
Speaker 3 (00:08:35) - Who is that question?
Speaker 1 (00:08:37) - All of you, all of you would love to hear because all of us have different lenses through which we see and experience the world. So yeah, everyone's thinking, everyone thought, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:08:47) - I have some thoughts to go, have a thought. I really think like what's beautiful about working in beauty, honestly, is that it's a lot about just self-expression and embracing oneself and embracing your authenticity as a person. Like, I mean, some people think about beauty and the beauty industry is a very superficial industry. But I think what I've learned in now being in the industry is that it's amazing how beauty gives people the opportunity to kind of express themselves in whatever that means to them, right? To celebrate themselves, to it's a form of self care.
Speaker 3 (00:09:22) - So I think this whole like for me, beauty is like self-expression and self care and it's just a different modality for that.
Speaker 1 (00:09:29) - That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (00:09:30) - I think that's well said. I would add, I think that beauty is also just like the energy you put out and a lot of people use makeup and skincare to to add to your physical experience. But when you're wearing this purple neon eyeshadow and you have like pink stripes in your hair, like, really, it's not like what you look like. It's like how that makes you feel on the inside and the energy that you bring. So like, you can always tell when someone feels confident in who they are, regardless of what their facial features are, what their hair type is. It's more so about how you can tell that someone feels beautiful by the way they're expressing themselves via beauty products. I think it's also like an energy as well.
Speaker 2 (00:10:13) - Alvin I was actually going to say the same thing as Janvi Yeah, for for me, beauty has really been about expressing myself.
Speaker 2 (00:10:23) - So, you know, growing up I felt that my parents actually as first gen immigrants, it was all about, you know, getting good grades, going to college, you know, investing in math and Stem. And, you know, I always did have this creative side. I think I just didn't know how to express it. And so for me, that was always through beauty and fashion. So, you know, whether that's crazy styles or as Nicole likes to say, the, the fun like eye colors that I always like to do. I feel like finally in my adult life, I've been able to express my inner child like beauty needs and creative needs through a form of expression, through beauty. And I think that's. And to Janvi point. Right, and Nicole's point, it's been about like me and not about like, I guess, like the. Outward, but just like what I feel like doing and my form of expression. So.
Speaker 1 (00:11:16) - And as women in the tech space, have you had to overcome? I mean, I feel like as founders of color, there's just even certain things to overcome.
Speaker 1 (00:11:26) - For some, like a normalized I didn't even know until maybe like the first season that I started the podcast about the term, like microaggressions and like what that was like and going through. And so to just have to get into the mindset of being able to persevere because any entrepreneur, you're going to have to persevere. You're going to have to like meet hurdles and like really sell yourself in so many different facets, whether it's to gain customers or investors, or even just to build awareness about your brand. And so many things like from an East Asian culture. That's for me, that's the antithesis of what I grew up with. It was like, you just be quiet and you don't like promote yourself. And humility is such a core value from a cultural lens. So I had to overcome that to be able to step into what I felt more comfortable with, which is being front facing. You know, I used to do a lot of teaching and a lot of speaking. And so being there on stage.
Speaker 1 (00:12:16) - But I'm curious, in your journey in the tech space as well, what were some of the things that you've either learned about your personal power and your personal gifts or things that you've had to overcome that maybe somebody who's listening to this, who wants to pursue their passion and in an underrepresented field, how are they going to navigate that?
Speaker 2 (00:12:35) - Yeah, that resonates a lot with me. I think I've always struggled with blending in and conforming, and that's kind of the opposite of what entrepreneurship is at its core. So growing up, I think just with my parents and with my upbringing and also just as an Asian female, you're kind of put into this box of, you know, don't speak up too much, like be nice, study hard. And that's kind of just the opposite of how corporate is and, you know, running a business. And so one of the things that I actually wrote about in my business school personal statement was that I kept getting a lot of feedback from my bosses that I need to be more assertive.
Speaker 2 (00:13:18) - They would say, Hey, you know, you have good opinions and you have good ideas. You just need to actually say it out loud. And, you know, I'd push back and say, well, you know, like my voice, you know, doesn't matter. Or like I'm too junior or I'm a woman, right? Like a lot of these different excuses and, and really, like, it wasn't until I actually had a boss. Her name is Claudia. She's Asian American woman, probably like 20 years older than me. And I was able to see her and she really pushed me and said, you know, as a role model and as a person who really encouraged me to have that kind of voice. And so, you know, those things, that's like really, really important, right, for women and women of color who do want to be entrepreneurs that, you know, you do have a voice, you do have ideas. You know, your opinions do matter. And so even with you actually, like I feel like with the three co-founders that, you know, Janvi and Nicole have really also like we push each other as well to be.
Speaker 2 (00:14:11) - I was just talking to Nicole, actually. She sat on the phone with me for 30 minutes, like basically like we're going to post on LinkedIn that you want this award. And I was like, I don't want to post about it. I don't want to brag about it. This is very cringe worthy. And she was like, Present your screen. We're going to write it. We're going to go there. I'm going to watch you do that. But sometimes it's funny, right? But it's like, why do I feel so awkward about, you know, speaking up and like, I have no issue, you know, commenting and and reposting Janvi and Nicole stuff. But why do I feel awkward, you know, doing that for myself, Right? And and there's probably certain things from, you know, childhood and society, but I think it's like really great that we have a founding team where we really encourage and push each other to amplify our voices and to not be shy about all of that.
Speaker 2 (00:15:03) - But, you know, if if I'm going to be honest, it's still something that I'm trying to work through this, like being assertive and being confident in that voice.
Speaker 1 (00:15:11) - So that's lovely. You actually, while you were talking, reminded me of someone shared with me a Twitter feed during the Asian American Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander Month, that it was Connie Chung walking into a room filled with 20 other Asian American women who were named Connie after her. And so she and her, like I think late 70s, now walked into the room and she looks amazing. She was she looked like so graceful and like so loving and just seeing all these women who are named after her because of the representation. That was such a lovely thing to witness.
Speaker 3 (00:15:45) - Wow. That's really that's really empowering. I know, right?
Speaker 1 (00:15:51) - But Champion Nicole, do you have any experiences, you know, building your business that you've learned from?
Speaker 3 (00:15:58) - Yeah, something as Sylvia was talking, something that came to mind in African American culture and like a lot of black cultures as well, children are taught to not speak up.
Speaker 3 (00:16:08) - And primarily it's driven by the respecting your elders experience and like basically not pushing back. Authority. And I found with myself and there are also other studies that prove this, but a lot of black people, when it comes to pushing back on authority figures, whether those are like doctors or executives or anyone in a power position, we push back less than others. So I had a boss actually at L'Oreal, who is another black woman. I'm very grateful for her. She called me out on it once. She was like, Hey, Nicole, you're like accepting defeat too soon. And I was like, oh, you know, they like they know best. Like, they told me that it's not a good idea. So, like, who am I to push back? And she basically challenged me and she was like, you, you cannot accept. No. And this was like a vendor we were working with for merchandising. And she was like, if they tell you you can't do it, like you are not allowed to accept.
Speaker 3 (00:17:00) - If you come back to me saying that like something couldn't get done, that's not acceptable. So remember being in meetings, be like, Well, are you sure we can't make that timeline? And it took me so long to get comfortable of pushing back on this like guy who was like, lovely. He wasn't like negative to me towards me at all, but he was maybe like 55 years old. I was 23 years old in a meeting like negotiating with this guy. And I'm so grateful for her for helping me unlearn that behavior. Not that I've completely unlearned it because I still struggle with it quite a bit, but it's calling it out and recognizing that, Hey, this is something that I've done my entire life and it's probably negatively impacting me and keeping me from a lot of potential that that I may have.
Speaker 1 (00:17:42) - That's amazing that the both of you had mentors who culturally you could identify with. You know, again, I think it goes back to the whole like, I don't think I fully grasp how important representation was until hearing just more and more of these stories.
Speaker 1 (00:17:58) - And what a pivotal, profound effect someone like that can make, even from one simple sentence or just, you know, like you said, like calling it out, like giving something a name or, you know, grounding it into something you can actually take action on.
Speaker 3 (00:18:11) - Yeah, absolutely. And I would just kind of 100% agree with that. I think from my experience, I was really lucky growing up. My dad is an entrepreneur and he's also an immigrant and he started his business when I was really, really young and so had that like role model in him as, hey, he was able to come to a new country like basically with the clothes on his back and really succeed in in America. And that that was something that I could look up to and also do. And these ladies know he's like our number one supporter. He's always on everything that we do.
Speaker 2 (00:18:47) - He's on every single LinkedIn post, reposting, commenting, liking in the group chats like so great.
Speaker 3 (00:18:56) - Yeah. I think kind of seeing how he built his business and it just inspired me to want to do that one day and just how hard he worked, but how kind of meaningful that that work was and having that kind of role model.
Speaker 3 (00:19:09) - And then later on in my career, I was at Google, which it was. It's been really interesting kind of transitioning from the tech big tech industry where there aren't even that many women represented, let alone like Asian women, to beauty, which is a lot more female dominated, which is, you know, often very refreshing. But I remember in my job at Google, just even seeing like there were VP and SVP that were Asian women and how they kind of held themselves in those rooms, similar to what Sullivan was saying about her old boss. It just they didn't even need to have a conversation with me to have an impact on me. Like I could just be sitting in that room and seeing how they presented themselves, their different leadership styles, because I think that's something that's challenging in general as an entrepreneur and trying to find role models is who am I going to model myself after and who kind of seems like authentically to fit my style because you're not going to lead in the same way as someone from maybe a different background would.
Speaker 3 (00:20:09) - So just being able to see those people has been incredibly helpful.
Speaker 1 (00:20:13) - Janvi, you said a word that really stood out to me, which is meaningful, like meaningful work. And so I'm curious as what you all have built this company and it's, you know, to help others identify themselves and to recognize the beauty within themselves. Has there been a meaningful story from the work that you've done, whether from like one of the community, you know, people you served or clients that really demonstrates how meaningful the work is? If you'd like a free meditation practice to help you manifest the life of your dreams, go to wild hearted words. Com forward slash money. There you'll find a free five minute guided audio practice that you can download and use at any time to fit your own schedule. It's filled with beautiful affirmations, ways to keep you focused on your intention and a lovely practice that you can use regularly to keep your energy aligned to the life that you'd like to create. That's wild hearted words. Com forward slash money.
Speaker 3 (00:21:21) - Yeah. There's so many moments. I don't know. Something specific comes to mind. I feel like there's. I just immediately think about our community that we've fostered. So we have this amazing, super diverse community of real people who just are beauty lovers and they review products. And the diversity there is just so incredible. I mean, there's women who wear a hijab, right? Who may not, you know, commonly see themselves represented in beauty. And just the idea that they could be on the website and like a spokesperson essentially of a brand is so meaningful, right. For that for that community. So there are so many dimensions of it. I don't know if there's other specific examples that come to mind. There's one person that comes to mind and she's in our community and she has a tanned skin tone, but she has rosacea. And if you were going to go to Google, if you were to search rosacea, it's all fair skinned people with like bright red skin. She's like, I have had this rosacea since I was born.
Speaker 3 (00:22:24) - But whenever I try to understand if products are for me, I don't feel comfortable that the claims have been tested on skin like mine. And I also have never seen someone with my skin tone that has rosacea. So what she typically does is she goes to Google or YouTube or TikTok and searches tanned skin, woman rosacea, and she's like, I've just been looking for the one person like me out there so that I won't feel so insecure about it. But I can also know how to apply products like you apply products differently. She doesn't need a blush, right? She she uses like a sheer tint skin tan and you can only her or someone like her would be able to advise her. And when I connected her with someone with tan skin in rosacea, she was so grateful and she was so emotional about it. And know that it's an emotional thing because, you know, all three of us have lived it. And seeing the magic of seeing someone exactly like you that you can trust, but seeing her to say, I have never in my entire life been able to connect with someone with this skin concern.
Speaker 3 (00:23:27) - And my skin tone was just really heartwarming to see that being seen and being heard.
Speaker 1 (00:23:33) - I feel like that's so important from like a fundamental human level. Your psyche like craves that someone do have like a memory.
Speaker 2 (00:23:42) - So we've run actually a lot of customer research on our tool on websites. And I remember there was this one older lady, you know, over 60, and we were showing her, you never know, right, with customers like how they're going to react. And I remember she really resonated with one of the creators videos who was talking about having fine line and wrinkles and how it's so hard to find the right products for them. And so, you know, I think when we talk about diversity, it's not only just shades, right? And ethnicity, it's also age. And that's something that we don't talk about a lot. And, you know, she was just so emotional about, you know, being able to see somebody over. Right. Even 30 years old as a model. Right.
Speaker 2 (00:24:26) - That's like a really big deal and seeing yourself represented. And so I think, you know, at the end of the day, we're doing this for the customer, right? You know, we want them to feel comfortable and see themselves. And so, you know, just a lot of these stories, when they don't owe you anything, it's their, you know, honest opinion. And seeing how excited they are just like really is cherry on top of the cake.
Speaker 1 (00:24:47) - So that's awesome. I wanted to ask because I feel like this was in my storytelling growing up. Like going to Harvard was like the pinnacle of life for like an Asian parent. So I wanted to ask you all, what was it like?
Speaker 3 (00:25:03) - Did you feel like, you know, life was different afterwards? You know, it's really funny because the three of us started who we met in our first semester in school, and we almost immediately started working together on this. And the one conversation that the three of us had and we all just fundamentally agreed upon was like, We are not going to drop out of Harvard.
Speaker 3 (00:25:29) - We need to complete this degree because it is important, right as that stamp of validation, especially coming from an underrepresented background, that having a Harvard MBA does actually have that weight in addition to of course, I think all of our parents are extremely proud and happy for us. But that was actually something that we talked about because there are a lot of people who just who just drop out and kind of start their businesses. And that in and of itself, being a Harvard dropout is its own kind of stamp. But we all agreed that it was important for us professionally to really get that.
Speaker 1 (00:26:03) - Do either of your other family members or any other how was it I mean, I was the first one out of my family to go to university in the United States, you know, and I went to Berkeley. And like from a public university standpoint, that was like, woo hoo! Which I also think the universe did me a solid because. I only applied to UCS. That's what was I did the whole financial aid thing and like, whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:26:26) - And I was like, all right, like, we can I can afford this, like, system situation. But the universe did me a solid. And UCLA was like right up the street from my parents. And I was like, There's no way I'm living at home. Like, I cannot fathom that. So it actually I got rejected from UCLA. So I was like, Oh, I guess I'm going to UCSD. Like, you know, in the caliber of like acceptance letters and whatnot. And then I got into Berkeley and I like, lost it. I was like, Oh my.
Speaker 3 (00:26:50) - God, What?
Speaker 1 (00:26:52) - So, yeah, just curious, like from that standpoint, where it was, where any of you like the first or the first and only as so many people have shared, like in more popular discussions, like I was the first and only.
Speaker 3 (00:27:08) - Yeah, I was a first generation college student, so the first person in my family to graduate from a four year university. And my mom has been very proud from a very from an early age.
Speaker 3 (00:27:23) - My mom has been quite proud of me and I put a lot of pressure on myself to strive for these things. So she's like the counter balance. She's like, Nicole, there's nothing more that you need to do to make me proud, which is like great. And I feel very grateful for that. But because I was the first to go to college, the concept of grad school, my family was like, okay, that's great. Like, we know that grad school is awesome, but like putting weight behind different universities or different degrees and what that would mean for them, it was generally like, Great, you graduated from college, now you're going to grad school. That's like a stamp of approval that we know society values. And of all the business schools, the only one that my mom would have like or my family would put a lot of weight on is Harvard, because that's just the name that they know of. Like, if I say I got into Northwestern's Kellogg School, like it's a fantastic program, but if I say, Oh, I got into Kellogg versus I got into Harvard, like everyone knows Harvard and like celebrated in the streets after hearing that I got into Harvard versus like the other programs because it means so much for them.
Speaker 3 (00:28:23) - And then I remember after I got in, I actually sent my family a care package of like, Harvard gear. So I bought my mom like a Harvard mom had and my brother like Harvard shirt and my stepdad like Harvard golf balls and like seeing them walk around like the neighborhood. Like I'm from Detroit and it's like a low income community. And even though I'm not there to represent, like, I think even having my mom wear her Harvard hat out to the grocery store, so meaningful for that community. And she tells me every day like there's nothing more that you need to do. Like, please, please calm down, Like, like don't stress yourself out. Why are you so stressed? And I'm like, It's just me. It's just I was born that way, but I feel grateful for support.
Speaker 1 (00:29:07) - That's so wonderful. I love hearing that ripple effect that it created because then now there's people within that community who are seeing that and seeing that that's possible. Even as you said, you're not there physically, but your presence and like the legacy that you're creating is there.
Speaker 1 (00:29:23) - And that's so powerful. Remember, the name of the podcast is F*ck Saving Face. So yeah, go on, girl.
Speaker 2 (00:29:30) - Yeah. I guess my my experience is interesting because I kind of feel sometimes that there's like a reason why I got in and maybe that has helped with entrepreneurship. So a little bit of context is that, you know, I grew up in the Bay View of San Francisco. It's not, you know, like nice at all. Went to public school pretty much most of my life. And so I guess I just never thought that I would be here. And I'm like really grateful. And so that's where and I actually remember when I was in the middle of applying, I was stressed and my mom goes, Oh, you don't need to stress out about getting a Harvard MBA. You can just marry a man who has a Harvard MBA. And I went, Mom, that's not the point of like all this, right? Like, I'm not doing it for that. And actually, my my dad is the one who, you know, really, really wanted me to go.
Speaker 2 (00:30:25) - And he would talk about it every single like week of like, oh, you need to get an MBA. Like not even Harvard, but just like an MBA in general. And we would fight over that all the time. And then he passed away suddenly, which was just really sad. And then like six months later, I got into Harvard, which was just and so like that, like has that's why I feel very conflicted about all of this, is that, you know, like I at the end of the day, I was like, oh, well, am I doing this for my parents or am I doing this for myself? Right? And while it was like a push from my father, and I'm sure you know that he would have been like so happy and so proud and everything, it's something where I feel just very conflicted about of like, okay, well, no, you did this for yourself. You know, you met your great co-founders there, you met a bunch of friends and everything.
Speaker 2 (00:31:18) - And so I think that's it's like. Think sometimes like. There is this. Yeah. It's just questions around like, who are we doing this for? Why are we doing it for? And you know, it all worked out. But I think if I were to, you know, say to the younger generation, it's that, you know, make sure that you are like thinking about like yourself and like what you actually want. And if it's the right school for you and not just, you know, because it's a name or etcetera, because it's not like a magic bullet. It's just something to help you. It's insurance is like what I always like to say.
Speaker 1 (00:31:53) - That's beautiful. Think that. Yeah. Especially with education, the way that it is moving, who knows what it'll look like, like ten years from now. But I always try to ensure that my daughter at least has the social, emotional resiliency skills and the ability to ask questions and the ability to know where to find that information, to at least have the life skills.
Speaker 1 (00:32:14) - Because I think there are so many entrepreneurs who I follow who say like, there are certain skills that you can teach, but there are certain things that just have to be innate and like how you show up as a person, what your beliefs are, your core values. Those are all things that are not readily taught as much as like enhanced or like honed. I love everything that you're sharing. Is there any like, thing that's I always like to ask this when I do interviews and I've done like thousands of them throughout my career, but is there anything that like you feel like is a message that really wants to come out that maybe I haven't asked a question around?
Speaker 3 (00:32:48) - There's something, a discussion that we often have as founders is not diminishing ourselves as women of color. When we walk into a room and we have all had different experiences within corporate America, but I'll speak about my own like I. He went to corporate America was like, what's the the blandest outfit I could wear and the safest hairstyle that I could have.
Speaker 3 (00:33:14) - And that was okay. I straightened my hair and it wore this like hideous black suit with like, a shirt and well, that's okay for some some scenarios like, yeah, I worked in at L'Oreal and I quickly learned, you know, after a week like, Hey, it's okay to wear a bright pink pink blazer and like funky boots. And I often see, especially now with beauty standards, a lot of beauty standards are adopted from communities of color, right? So you think of like, acrylic nails and like bold jewelry and even like the slick hair buns, which is like born from Latino community and like the acrylic nails, which is like black community. And like so many people have spent so many years diluting themselves to fit in until you've gotten permission to show up as yourself. And like we are in this unique position with our company, we're in the beauty industry, we're also in the tech industry. And what that does is that gives us permission to like be our authentic selves, but also be a little quirky, like, you know, to embrace both sides of that company.
Speaker 3 (00:34:13) - And I think as if I could tell my 12 year old self something, it would be like, it's not how you like show up. You can show up as your authentic self. It's more so about the value you're creating and the intention behind your words and how you treat people and all the things that truly, truly matter versus like, what color are your nails like? Oh, did you straighten your hair? Do you have this like wild afro like that? That really doesn't matter in a lot of environment.
Speaker 1 (00:34:38) - That's so valuable. That's like, well, shoot, I wish my 12 year old self had heard that lesson too.
Speaker 3 (00:34:43) - It's easy to say like, Oh, I wish I had known that, but it took years and, you know, I'm still struggling with it today. But it just takes takes time.
Speaker 1 (00:34:51) - I think what's fascinating is that when I think back about all the people who changed history or, you know, really pushed against the grain and against popular opinion, I find those people the most fascinating.
Speaker 1 (00:35:04) - Who took the biggest, boldest risks, like risking their lives or risk like when everybody else around them shared a different truth than what they experienced. I find that fascinating that someone could be that strong minded and strong willed to say, You all are wrong, and I'm going to show you what that is. And that to me, like, I've always wish that I could be like, have a little bit of that to like, pull on that when I get afraid or when I'm putting myself in a new situation to be like, Nope. Just because everybody else believes this thing doesn't mean that it's true. It's just a shared collective belief. Like what if, you know, like just one little pivot can create such a remarkable difference that I wish I had a list of all those people. I should put it on my wall.
Speaker 3 (00:35:53) - Like on this day. Yeah, that's funny because I feel like that resonates so much as a founder because to be like a founder and to start something, you inherently have to believe something that a lot of other people don't.
Speaker 3 (00:36:06) - And you are like creating something new in the world that's like never existed before. And you experience rejection constantly, right? Whether it's in fundraising or in other environments, people are constantly telling you no, right? No, that's not going to work. No, you're like a little bit crazy to think that. And so I think we've developed a piece of that. I wouldn't say like to the extent that those people have really changed, the world have. But there is an element of that, right? Like it's that dent in the universe. Like what is the dent in the universe that you're going to be making? And and and we're putting our effort, our whole being behind that. And the beautiful thing about having co-founders is that on those days when one of us is down and and, you know, losing maybe a little bit of the faith like the other ones are like, no, this is this is it. We're all equally obsessed with this and bringing it to life. And because it is so mission driven, I think that also just motivates us.
Speaker 3 (00:37:06) - Like, hey, this really needs to exist, right? People need to feel represented that that's just a fact. And how we get there, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (00:37:14) - I love hearing like the works in progress. Like that's been like a theme that I've heard each of you share is that it may look pretty on the outside, but on the inside there's still like this evolving learning and growth that's happening. And I think that especially in the social media world that's so important to underscore is like what you're seeing is the highlight reels. And I always like to say like what's happening on the outside of the square that's being captured. Like what is all this other life that's like unfolding and how that informs what you see in that one moment. But yeah, it's beautiful to know that, like, you know, there is no place of perfection and that it's continual progress. Also, I listen to a lot of like spiritual things. And this one thing that I was listening to you recently said like, you know, because the consciousness of the universe is ever expanding, because the universe is infinite and it just keeps growing that like, even after you passed.
Speaker 1 (00:38:07) - Your energy, your soul or whatnot is still evolving and growing. I'm like, Wait, it doesn't stop.
Speaker 3 (00:38:13) - No.
Speaker 1 (00:38:14) - Not afterwards. You feel like I'm good.
Speaker 3 (00:38:17) - Like I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:38:18) - Enlightened. It's all good. Yeah. So as we before I ask the question that I close every interview, is there anything you wanted to add?
Speaker 2 (00:38:27) - Silvan Yeah. I guess one thing on what Janvi said is, is that I think sometimes it's really easy to see on social media, you know, like all these updates and awards and people always say like, Oh, it looks like things are going great and everything. And, and I told them that, you know, that's really like 5% of the job. Really. 95% is like really hard work, really hard execution, tough days, tough nights. And so, you know, while it looks like, you know, just really nice on the outside sometimes, like day by day, I always tell people like, I don't know what to expect. I have maybe an expectation of how the day is going to go and then it kind of changes over time.
Speaker 2 (00:39:13) - And then I'm a vegetable by the night. So. So like I think that's just all to say, like it's tough being an entrepreneur, but having a mission and a Y and a North Star is just really important and the right team.
Speaker 1 (00:39:26) - So so as we close this interview, I ask every guest, if you could say f*ck saving face about something, what would you say about do you have someone?
Speaker 2 (00:39:35) - Yeah, I'll go first. I would say f*ck saving face about blending in. So. When I grew up, you know, I think it was just really hard having two different identities. It almost is like you're a Gemini twin where there's this Asian side and then there's this American side. And I think it's taken me a lot of time to really and probably only in my 30s to really find that it's beautiful to be part of two distinct cultures. You know, on the Asian side, there's the food, the traditions, you know, the values such as strong family ties. And on the American side, you know, what I really like is values such as independence and openness and, you know, holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (00:40:25) - And so just really embracing that and realizing that, you know, it's not about blending in. It's about like being like who you are and authentic. And, you know, if it's a blend of two cultures is who you are, then that is who you are. And really just like embracing both sides of them. And that's beautiful. Who wants to go next?
Speaker 3 (00:40:44) - That was so well said. Do you know how to have something if you need more time? Yeah, I have something, but I'm trying to formulate it for you. Okay. Yeah, I definitely won't be as well set as sylvan's. I would say F*ck Saving Face about. Your dreams and desires. I realized in the school environment particularly, but as soon as you start saying and putting the energy out into the world of like what you want, who you want to be, then other people reflect that back to you. So you may be missing out on opportunities or experiences because you may not say like, Hey, I want to be a founder of a company.
Speaker 3 (00:41:22) - You may have never said that out loud, but if you start telling the world that, then someone will say, Oh, hey, I know. Had this conversation with her last week. Let me introduce her to someone that I know or let me share this article with her because I think a lot of people are afraid to go against the norm. It's easy to say, Oh, I want what everyone else wants, whether that's from like your personal life or education or career or things that bring you joy. But those things that are against the grain that you just aren't saying like, go after that and put that out into the universe because you never know what will come back to you.
Speaker 1 (00:41:58) - Love that.
Speaker 3 (00:42:00) - Okay, I'll close it out. I would say f*ck saving face to not having a seat at the table. I think we deserve a seat at the table. Like we. We work incredibly hard. We are just as capable as any other entrepreneur. And it can be tough to kind of compare yourselves to others.
Speaker 3 (00:42:22) - But I think in the moments where I've whether it's been through fundraising or through other experiences as a founder, where I said, Hey, I deserve to be here as much as anybody else does, I have something of value and we as a team have something of value to bring to the table. That's when we've been able to just really unlock a lot more of our the opportunity that's in front of us. Like, Hey, there's not a reason why we should hold ourselves back or say we don't deserve to be in that room or we don't deserve to, you know, ask for that check or that advisor, whoever it is that we want to bring around the table. So yeah, I think just embracing that and saying, Hey, we're doing something great and other people would be just lucky to be a part of the journey that that we're going on.
Speaker 1 (00:43:06) - I think one of the other takeaways that I heard and the theme was like, Don't say no to yourself before you even given yourself a chance. And I think that a lot of us, whether it's through limiting beliefs or what we were told outwardly as external, you know, storytelling from the people who probably had good intentions or had their own lens through which they were looking at life and then being told no and then telling ourselves no.
Speaker 1 (00:43:30) - You know, I think I just explained this to my daughter yesterday or this morning, and I was saying like, well, you should always go for greatness because if you miss greatness, then you're over here. But if you're just aiming for like average and you miss it, then you're like, down here. And she was like, Oh, like I could see, you know, having that, like, intrinsic belief. A friend of mine just said, I can't believe you just use Intrinsic in a conversation. Bravo. But this is so wonderful. If people want to learn more about you, where can they follow up with you?
Speaker 2 (00:44:02) - They can follow us on IG. It's at Powered by Hue, or they can follow us on LinkedIn, which is also Hue. So we'd love to, yeah, connect with anyone there.
Speaker 1 (00:44:15) - Your community sounds wonderful. And having all of this advocates and like people who are, you know, shifting the standard of beauty and the definition of it and as you said, like so many other industries, like it's not just for beauty, but that there are other industries that could benefit from what it is that you're offering is so wonderful.
Speaker 2 (00:44:34) - Yeah. Thank you. We love them as well. So they're amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:44:39) - Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you'd like to support me and this show, please go to iTunes and leave your review. It means so much to me and it'll help others find this podcast. I'll catch you in the next episode and if you'd like to stay in touch between now and then, please visit wild hearted words and sign up for my weekly newsletter. I've had people share with me that it's the best thing to arrive in their inbox all week. Aloha.
LIKE WHAT YOU HEARD?
Help us get more content like this out into the world!
Support our podcast or make a donation here.
Keywords: F*ck Saving Face podcast, mental health, emotional health, Asian Americans, marriage, relationships, unconventional, space, epigenetics, inner work, healing, duality
