EP 93: Pursuing Your Passion: The Most Important Lesson with Erwin Hines

Written By Judy Tsuei

In this episode, Judy talks with Erwin Hines, designer and founder of the clothing brand, "Future Is Color," about the importance of seeking inner peace in a society that values financial gain above all else.

They discuss the tension that comes with balancing personal fulfillment and financial stability and the importance of not living according to someone else's standards.

Erwin emphasizes the importance of pursuing one's passions, even if it means starting small and building on them over time. He suggests focusing on the feeling and intention behind one's goals, rather than solely on the outcome.

Judy and Erwin also touch on the topic of finding one's purpose and intention, and how it's okay to not have a clear answer right away. They suggest taking the time to self-examine and reexamine and to be hyper-present in every moment in order to find clarity and inner peace.

Overall, the episode highlights the importance of finding inner peace and pursuing passions that align with one's true values and desires, rather than solely chasing external validation or financial gain. It encourages listeners to focus on the feeling behind their goals and to take the time to self-examine and reexamine in order to find clarity and fulfillment.

Episode Highlights

01:12 Judy talks about her recent trip to Mexico with her girlfriends, where they celebrated one of their friends retiring from her teaching career to move into a coaching career.

03:11 Judy discusses her decision to pause her memoir writing to focus on her podcast and business, and how she wants to honor her family and herself by creating a redemptive story.

05:42 Judy talks about completing the first level of her neurolinguistic programming integrative practitioner training, and how it can help shift unconscious beliefs to create a new outcome in life.

09:07 Judy talks about her experience with parts integration and how it helped her show up in a more loving way with her parents.

13:19 Judy introduces Irwin Hines, an artist and designer, and talks about his purposeful work in creating space for meaningful conversation and change.

15:38 Irwin shares his personal journey and how the murder of George Floyd led him to create his brand, Futurist Color, as a way to honor and support the Black community.

18:45 Judy talks about how she accidentally started selling t-shirts with powerful messages and how it led her to donate over $250,000 to different organizations and create a brand focused on liberation and collective healing.

24:23 Judy and her sister created a program called Teachers of Color, which aimed to empower students by teaching them about their history and culture. The program provided students with laptops, cameras, and high-speed internet to work on a capstone project about their story.

27:04 Judy now runs and operates Futurist Color, a brand that creates wearable conversations and holds physical space for programs and events focused on bringing people together from different backgrounds to have hard and healing conversations about cultural tensions and liberation.

27:52 Judy and the speaker discuss the importance of facing difficult situations and conversations in order to heal and grow.

30:31 The speaker explains the intention behind the Good Friends dinner series, which brings together strangers from different backgrounds to connect and have meaningful conversations.

33:10 The speaker discusses the importance of connecting with one's true identity beyond societal constructs of worth based on what one does for a living.

36:37 Speaker 2 talks about the therapeutic experiences of community building events and how they create an anti-system structure.

41:06 Speaker 2 shares her personal journey of pursuing her passion for art and community building, despite her family's expectations for her to work in their development company.

43:31 Speaker 2 discusses how learning about Basquiat's impact on pop culture and commerce inspired her to pursue art as a means of creating sustainable change for her community.

45:05 Judy talks about her decision to pursue a career in branding and design instead of working for her family's business.

48:57 Judy discusses the impact of urban planning and branding on our daily lives and how they shape our perception of the world.

51:05 Judy shares her experience of pursuing a career in art despite her family's expectations and how she gained their support through her success in freelance work.

52:33 Speaker 2 talks about how he pursued his dream of design and creativity against his parents' wishes, but ultimately honored his family's legacy by merging his skillset with his upbringing.

58:14 Speaker 2 shares a humorous story about his parents organizing an intervention when he decided to move to California, despite their concerns for his safety.

56:38 Speaker 1 and Speaker 2 discuss the importance of following one's passion and how it can lead to unique solutions for the community, as well as the challenges of navigating parental expectations.

01:01:18 Judy and her guest discuss the importance of following inner peace when pursuing passions, rather than focusing on money or external validation.

01:02:37 The guest talks about how art is a form of self-examination and exploration, and how it can help build empathy and community.

01:06:19 The guest discusses the importance of ongoing self-knowledge and self-love, and how it requires being hyper present in every moment.

01:07:54 The speaker talks about the importance of seeking peace in life, even though it may not always lead to financial gain.

01:09:46 The speaker talks about the importance of not living according to anyone else's standards, whether it's family, parents, or societal standards.

01:11:05 The speaker talks about the importance of pursuing all of your passions, as they will build on top of one another, and to not downplay any tension you identify within yourself.

Transcript:

Speaker 1 (00:00:02) - Welcome to the F*ck Saving Face podcast, where we're empowering mental and emotional health for Asian Americans and voices of color by breaking through taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Make your story beautiful today in case you're new to this show. My name is Judy Tsuei and I'm the founder of Wild Hearted Words. We are a strategic branding and content marketing agency and we focus on working with female entrepreneurs of color to create sustainable six figure success. If you'd like to experience what it's like to work with me, you can sign up for my latest masterclass that's available on my website@wildheartedwords.com slash shop. It's called Overcoming Challenges and Traumas through Mindset, shifts and Manifestation. And when you sign up for the audio course that's about an hour, you'll also get a bonus PDF filled with incredible affirmations that you can practice every day to welcome in the life you'd like to have for a limited time. The course is now only $19. Again, go to wildheartedwords.com/shop now onto the episode.

Speaker 1 (00:01:12) - Can you believe that we are in June? This is wild. So I just got back from a mama's trip to Mexico with my closest girlfriends. We did not bring our children, it was just the moms and it was supreme. We were there to celebrate one of our friends retiring from her teaching career to move into a coaching career because she is a huge advocate of women and finding the resources that you need as you're going through menopause. She experienced early onset menopause. She tested for the BRCA gene, chose to remove her breasts, and also, um, had a hysterectomy. So in that it created early onset menopause, which she had no resources for, and because of that, wants to be the person who advocates and creates resources now. And so many of us have gone through these challenging experiences in our lives where we felt very, very alone.

Speaker 1 (00:02:11) - It's one of the reasons that we choose to move forward in a purpose-driven life and a purpose-driven career because of the things that we experienced, which directly ties into this week's guest, this phenomenal interview with Irwin Hines. Before I get into that, I will also say that what I'm doing now with the F*ck Saving Face Podcast, what I'm doing with my business, how I'm evolving it into is exactly also for that reason. It's to help that young person who I was in high school when I felt so utterly alone, dealing with the devastation of authoritarian tiger parenting, dealing with the impact of my parents' unhealthy marriage, dealing with the consequences of them choosing to have me be the mediator between them and also the eldest of four children to help raise my three younger children. So when I started this podcast, it was because I wanted to build a platform for the memoir that I wanted to pitch out.

Speaker 1 (00:03:11) - And I did have traction. I did have agents who I was talking to, but I took a pause on that because in my own personal life I see that I wanted there to be a redemptive story, even though the narrative that I would've written would have aligned and resonated with so many individuals of all different cultures who've gone through what I've gone through. I wanted to make sure that I was honoring my family, my parents, myself, for all the challenges that we had worked through in our own ways to get to where we are now. Because where we are now is fundamentally different than where we were when I was growing up. And so as I started to share these stories that I wanted to write in my book, my partner said, I really wish that you could speak to the students at my school.

Speaker 1 (00:04:00) - So at the time, he was working with high school, then he went and started working with junior high students as a school administrator and then now back to high school. And I was confused. I didn't know what he was talking about. He's like, well, everything that sharing with me, these stories of what you went through with your family, with the pressure, with the, you know, perfectionistic standards, that's what I see with the students who I work with who are also Asian American today. And that blew my mind. I thought that for some reason when I grew up that this would no longer happen, that we would be out of this. We would be at a more elevated state of understanding mental health, emotional health, physical health. But to my great surprise, this is still rampant. And so the journey of season four has been this evolution of self for me to find my voice, for me to find ways that I can support.

Speaker 1 (00:04:54) - It's one of the reasons that I launched my TikTok channel. You can follow me there at Wild Hearted words and you will see that I'm taking everything that I'm learning and really figuring out what is it that that person who I was, that younger person, what did she need? Because whatever she needed, I know that so many other people right now also need, and not just that younger self from a decade ago, from two decades ago, but even the younger self several years ago when I was going through my divorce, even that younger self, you know, several years ago when I was getting back into opening myself up to be vulnerable, to have a relationship, or a year ago when I was getting back into therapy and really figuring out this grief that I've had for so long that I didn't know how to process and I didn't know what to do with.

Speaker 1 (00:05:42) - And the more that I handled that grief, the more that I've allowed in all of the wonderful experiences, the wonderful connections, the feeling of love, the feeling of being supported, which is exactly what this weekend in Mexico with my fellow mama girlfriends who all surf was all about. I also wanna share that recently I completed the first level of my neurolinguistic programming, integrative practitioner training. And so a lot of people are like, am I supposed to know what N L P is? And you know, for me, I knew about it because I lived in Austin. There was a big community of NLP practitioners there and just a lot of incredible women who were doing so much self-work in supporting one another in the growth of their business and their lives and throughout this journey of motherhood. So I was curious about it back then. It didn't fit into my lifestyle to learn about it until just now.

Speaker 1 (00:06:36) - So this idea of N L P is understanding that, you know, our lives are this outcome of our unconscious beliefs, and by shifting our unconscious beliefs, we can create a new outcome in our lives. We can do it quickly, we can do it in a streamlined way. It doesn't need to be this convoluted or really, really difficult process, but you do need to commit to this work. So it was four intensive days in Los Angeles from 9:00 AM to 8:00 PM every day. And I had my daughter. And so the only way that I could have done this training was to be able to bring her with me and for my parents to show up and watch her and help provide care for her, which this was the first time she's now eight in her entire life, that she spent this much time with these grandparents. It's the first time that my parents have really, I feel in so many ways, stepped up to what I needed in the moment.

Speaker 1 (00:07:32) - And a lot of that understanding was as I worked my, with my therapist about grief work, about grieving the childhood that I wish that I had, that I hadn't. But then learning to accept my parents as they are now, and knowing that I have a phenomenal community. I immunity <laugh>, I was trying to say fundamental, phenomenal, just a fantastic community of people who can support me now in the ways that I need for what it is that I need now. So even if they showed up, even, even if there was miscommunication or potential disappointment, I'm not the same person who I was before. And so I know that I can handle it now. It turned out to be a remarkable experience all around. And one of the things that I found so transformative was the fact that I volunteered to be a demo at the NLP training.

Speaker 1 (00:08:20) - So this man, Dr. Matt James, he met Tony Robbins when he was very, very young. He's been in this space for decades and decades. It's a familial business. He had grown up in Hawaii. And so being able to have that connection with the Hawaii and understanding of how much I love Hawaii and how much it feels like home for me, how much my heart aches and breaks, that I'm not there. And even though I know right here is where I'm supposed to be right now, I still yearn for Hawaii all of the time. And so to be able to have that connection with this man to hear the elders who he worked with, who I recognized, it was truly a monumental learning experience. And we would learn these different techniques. We would workshop them in real time with different partners who we would match up with in the audience.

Speaker 1 (00:09:07) - And on the very last day, I volunteered to be a demo for a parts integration experience. When I finished with that experience, when I got off the stage, there were people who were there live and then people who were watching live and taking the training virtually. So about a hundred people. When I got back to my seat, the people around me were like, that was a phenomenal thing to witness. We were on the edge of our seats. You look like a completely different person now. And the ways that I was able to go back to my parents to show up, to honor them, to have a sense of forgiveness, to show up in a way around them, that I show up with everybody else who I love in my life and to not feel any sort of weightiness around that, but instead this freedom and this liberation to be exactly who I am and to show up in all the loving ways that I do with everybody else in my life.

Speaker 1 (00:09:58) - And to be able to offer that to them without regret or without resentment was so freeing. And I'm very, very excited because I've now signed up for a two week master NLP practitioner program so that I can begin to offer this to other women who are looking for that same kind of healing, who are looking to shift the trauma that they experienced growing up with Tiger Parenting, to learn how to create a new narrative as they step into motherhood for themselves or for the children who they are now raising. This is why I am so excited to have today's podcast guest Irwin Hines. So one of my clients with my branding and marketing agency, Wild Hearted Words, we went to this live studio recording at his space in Logan Heights here in San Diego. And Irwin does many, many things, which I will read his bio shortly, but he's also very involved in the culinary field.

Speaker 1 (00:11:00) - And one of my clients is a culinary apparel client. So we were able to have this round table with him. And the first time that I interviewed him was for my client, for a feature for my client. And I had never heard anyone as articulate as the way he is when it comes to amplifying voices of color when it comes to talking about conflict and conversations and connection. And you will hear it for yourself. But I was so blown away by him that I knew I wanted to have him on the podcast. So then I reached back out before we actually met in person. And the round table that we did in person was just so enjoyable. There were multiple people on the panel. And then after that, being able to speak to him one-on-one, you know, during this interview was just as enjoyable. It was just this continuation of being inspired by someone who's truly living by his core values and taking action in his life and his work and seeing the results that he's been able to create for anyone who's feeling conflicted in the work that you're doing or feeling like you wanna make a shift in your career or curious about how you can align more to who you are as a person and what you do for work.

Speaker 1 (00:12:20) - This is the interview for you. Irwin Hines is an artist, designer and creative director. Throughout his career, he's focused on doing work that fosters empathy and inclusivity across all disciplines. He uses design to examine and reflect tensions within the current cultural landscape. He's led the creation of industry defining work for companies such as Google Coach Beats by Dre Under Armour, Webbies and More. He recently started Futurist Color, a research and design studio focused on using design to create space for meaningful conversation and change through futurist color. Irwin's released a line of garments that serve as a wearable conversation with a portion of the proceeds being donated back to organizations doing the groundwork for change. Futurist color also works with brands and organizations like the A C L U to provide design and strategy services. Irwin has a keen understanding that the digital, physical and experiential artifacts we create help shape people's perception of the world and their place within the world.

Speaker 1 (00:13:19) - That's why he's focused on using the tool set of design to put out work that can help shape a more equitable environment where those who have historically been oppressed have a voice and the freedom to just be themselves. Irwin has designed for Peloton. He recently had a line that launched with Footlocker. I bought one of his, uh, sweatshirts when I was at his store doing the round table. And he hosts live events in San Diego with local artists. He helped revive the local community where more shops are staying open now, restaurants, things like that. And I hope that you gain a sense of who he is and his purposeful work, and not only to support what it is that he's creating, but to also let it be an opportunity for you to reflect upon how you can use your talents and your gifts to create that groundwork for change.

Speaker 1 (00:14:14) - Alrighty, I'm very, very excited for today's guest. I met Irwin first through a client actually, and then we recently did a round table at his studio here in San Diego. And I will also preface this by saying that Mercury is in retrograde. So we're having a little bit of tech stuff happening, <laugh>. So if you hear, you know, a bit of background noise and whatnot, you know, we'll just manage through it, go with the flow. But Irwin is an artist and a designer. I actually recently bought one of his sweatshirts and I will ask him about how he created this line and what the intention behind it is. But the other part that we're gonna explore today is just this idea of when you have parents or a family of origin who has a traditional set way of thinking or doing things and wanting the best for you, and yet you pursuing the things that are best, are actually sometimes gonna fly in the face of what they originally wanted and how you can manage and deal with that. So I'm gonna turn it over to Irwin to share a bit about your story, whatever you feel you want to share as part of your bio. And by the way, Irwin's also said that it's a little bit challenging to articulate in like distill everything down into one single sentence because I think so many of us are creative souls who are multi-passionate and have different, you know, experiences in life. But I will turn it over to you, Irwin.

Speaker 2 (00:15:38) - Oh man. Okay. So what, what, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm always excited to just like be in conversation and community with anybody who's like also just exploring like deepening knowledge of self and really sort of expanding our understanding of like each other in humanity. How do I describe who I am in my pathway? Again, my name is Irwin. I started my brand called Futurist Color in 2020 during the pandemic with the murder of George Floyd. And really for me, it came out of a space of like internal tension. And so I went out to go protest and as soon as I did that, I like ended up going downtown in San Diego, pulled down one street in my car, saw the police officers getting out of their cars and off of their motorcycles immediately about to draw their batons. And I immediately just froze.

Speaker 2 (00:16:30) - And it's all, and I always tell people like all of the emotions, all of the feelings, all of the things that I've ever been told about life as a black person in America, from my ancestors, from my grandparents, and like what they went through all came like rushing onto my shoulders, into my heart, into my soul. And it just like, I felt so much like anxiety and pressure and so I wasn't able to get out the car and like join the protest. And then that was like additional internal like tension and guilt that I wasn't able to like stand for my people. My story, my ancestors, they fought for my ability to protest and my ability to move in these revolutionary spaces and again, fight. And so again, there was like external tension, internal tension, historic tension, legacy, tin, all just like built up. And then I like went back home, was able to like have a partner to actually like explore what I was feeling with and like talk about it.

Speaker 2 (00:17:32) - And then as I began to talk about it, just like other notions of like, we've created all of these amazing cultural artifacts that exist that inspire, whether it's the music, the impact in sciences, inventions that have like contributed to the, the foundational like understanding of what it is to be in America and what it is to be, uh, revolutionary in America from activism to science, music to sports, athletics, et cetera. And just thinking about how we honor and loves and revere particular individuals like, uh, LeBron James, these athletes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But then when it comes to seeing the individual, we don't attach those same things or America doesn't attach those same things, right? So I made a shirt called You Can't Love the Culture and not support the People. Mm. And it wasn't saying like love the people, it was literally just saying support. So it's just support us on our journey to equality, support us on this journey to just being viewed and being able to operate in this space the same way everybody else does.

Speaker 2 (00:18:45) - And I wrote that and then put it on a T-shirt. And really the t-shirt was more, for me, a canvas of expression. It wasn't something that I was looking to sell, it wasn't something that I was looking to profit on. I had just gotten used to putting things on t-shirts because I'm traditionally trained as a graphic designer. Went to school for it, worked in the agency space for 10 plus years. And so for me, typography, layout, iconography, and then copywriting are really sort of my mechanisms for creative expression. And I didn't wanna like just design a poster. So ended up making a t-shirts again, not even expecting to print it, put it on my Instagram. People ended up like contacting me saying like, are you selling this? Are you selling this? Are you selling it? And I was like, okay, maybe I should. And then I put it on like Shopify posted it on my actual Instagram feed thinking I was gonna like sell $700 worth of stuff because I, I wasn't selling shorts at that time.

Speaker 2 (00:19:41) - I wasn't known for selling shirts, I didn't have a clothing line. So I was like, no one's gonna be coming to me to buy shirts speaking about this issue. But the shirt had a particular resonance with, with a lot of people and we ended up selling out of what I put up there, which was literally like 25 shirts. Then I put up like an unlimited amount and then overnight we sold over 5,000 units. So I like woke up to like all of these orders and of course like a lot of money in the Shopify account. And so that question of like, okay, what do I do next? Started to like arise in my being. And the fact that also a lot of people ended up connecting with it was powerful to me. And so it wasn't even the fact that there was a lot of sales, it was like over the course of that week people started reaching out just saying like, this is what I needed.

Speaker 2 (00:20:32) - This shirt was like healing this shirt was like powerful. And not just the shirt, but the words were powerful and it was like speaking something into their soul or into their being or giving voice to something they were thinking or feelings as well. And the fact that people were wearing it at the protest. So even if I wasn't able to go, the words were able to go and sort of stand in representation and then ended up starting to like think about what to do with that money. And since I was still working full-time, I didn't really wanna take any of that money myself. And so then I ended up donating over the course of like a next few drops, ended up donating over 250,000 to different organizations and then with that was able to then function and help within those organizations direct where that money went.

Speaker 2 (00:21:18) - And so then over the course of that year, I worked intimately even with like the A c L in different organizations to help support different programming focus on like youth education and youth expansion of like knowledge of self. And then continued to release. So after that first shirt, which I re-released a few times, then I continued, I had other thoughts and other feelings, other like stirrings that I would always write down. So I just started taking all of those writings and again, making more sort of wearable conversation pieces. So it went from you can't love their culture and not, uh, support the people. Then there was one that was just like digging into that statement of all power to all people and then sort of like trying to get people to honor the legacy of the Black Panther party and the movement and what it truly represented.

Speaker 2 (00:22:06) - And so everything also came with like a literary playlist or like additional reading. So it's like you get this shirt, but then you also get sort of additional reading and additional resources to continue sort of the fight for liberation and collective liberation. So that was always a foundational part, which is like we need to be collectively liberated in this against this system. And then it went into like things around supremacy and when I was like supremacy, it was white supremacy and also sort of patriarchal masculinity because you can't just say let's get rid of white supremacy without actually also digging into the patriarchy and digging into all of these other things that also exist within cause of this like larger sort of thing that we always say, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so as I began to release these shirts, I was also continuing to dig deeper and deeper and deeper into like actual research because again, I wanted to use the shirt as a way to outline and identify the tentacles of oppression that exist within society, but then not just leave it there.

Speaker 2 (00:23:12) - Not just leave it at like, here's, here's an identifier. Now you know it's there, but you probably already know it's there. But like, let's also create a pathway to healing and create a pathway to liberation. So that was where the statements were never about just like saying it exists, but it was saying like, this is what we need to do to actively engage in collectively liberating ourselves. And then here's some additional reading, here's some additional content, here's some additional spaces, here's some additional like healing spaces that we can like begin to tap into in different regions. And so that's really the foundation of the brand. And then in like late 2020, my sister was working at a school at that time and after donating and being able to have impact in those spaces, I began to really think about like my experience growing up and how my family deeply rooted me in the knowledge of like my story and sort of like the dynamism of like black culture and the black community and the fact that we don't always have to exist and the way that society tells us we need to exist or the way that the media shows us that we need to exist or should exist, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (00:24:23) - And so I saw how that impacted how I saw myself and how I, I was able to show up in the world and how I was able to sort of carve my own pathway even against like when my parents were like, oh, don't be a designer, don't be a designer, which I'm I'll, I'll get into, but it allowed me to carve my own pathway and move according to like what I believed was right and what spoke to my soul. And so in late 2020, my sister and I ended up creating a program that was called Teachers Color. And it was really with this principle belief that all people have the power to write their own story when they know their story, right? So when you know your history and you are deeply rooted in your knowledge of self, then you have the ability to really shape the future in a more clear way, in a way that's like tailored to who you are and your experience.

Speaker 2 (00:25:16) - And so that program was like an afterschool program that was six months long, where we brought in like 12 students from a underfunded under like an underfunded school within the inner city, while all of them laptops bought all of them like cameras and like documentation or documentary equipment so they could actually like film and work on this sort of capstone project of like telling their story. And then we also made sure they all had high speed internet within the home. And so that program for me was like the tipping point for me to go like, this is something I really, really want to continue to pursue. So then the name future is Color, I reported it over to the actual larger brand. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So now the brand has all of that built in, which is create space for conversation and dialogue with the belief that conversation and then proximity are the roots of positive cultural progression and like with a key focus on examining cultural tensions or preexisting held cultural beliefs that are sometimes oppressive and liberating us from that. Or like releasing things that can help liberate us from that. Create pathways for liberation. And so now I run and operate futurist color, which is the, the brand that you release shirt wearable conversations. And then we also hold like physical space within our studio and Barrio Logan for different programs and events that are also focused on the same thing. Just bringing people together from disparate backgrounds to actually begin to have those hard conversations and healing conversations and again, be collectively liberated.

Speaker 1 (00:27:04) - I love that so much. Yeah, I mean there's so much that you shared that, you know, I'm jotting down notes <laugh>. So for anyone who's listening the multiple times that I've hung out with Irwin, I just wanna sit and listen to 'em talk all the time because your intentionality and your living by your core values and your principles and being able to see the real results that you've generated. So I'm not talking about like, you know, from just a financial monetary perspective, but I'm talking about the impact that you've created and cultivated where in hearing your story in the different aspects of the things you've offered to the community in the local community and the community at large, that it seems like everything you touch then has a positive ripple effect for other people to then pursue their dreams, to awaken, to live more aligned to their principles and their gifts and their purpose.

Speaker 1 (00:27:52) - So a lot of the liberating and releasing, another thing that I had noted was you had used the words like hard and healing. And I think that, you know, a therapist of mine a while back had told me like, the only way that you can heal is to move through it. Like you can only go through it in order to truly heal. And so I think a lot of us avoid the harder things because they are hard, because we are pre-programmed and wired to want things to be, you know, easier and more seamless. But it's in these hard and healing conversations that we can actually start to spark that deeper knowledge that you were saying. And I'll ask you in a little bit about the, you know, in-person events that you do too mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I think also you are talking about storytelling and I think one of the things that I'm becoming more conscious of is in order for me to truly pursue that healing path is having more understanding of my parents and their mindset and while mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (00:28:46) - <affirmative> whatever effect it was that they created in my life, which has involved a lot of unraveling and grief, it has also, in order to, for me to fully embrace myself as a whole person, I need to understand like, you know, they are who they are because of the circumstances that happen in their lives and what they had access to. Like you were talking about proximity. And I think if you don't have that proximity to access to the resources and tools you need, it becomes monumentally hard to evolve and change. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you too about, you know, the, I love the wearable conversation and the in-person experiences that you're cultivating. And one of the things that I would love for you to kind of briefly go over is your the dinner, the good friends

Speaker 2 (00:29:34) - <laugh>. Yes. So I'm gonna explain like the umbrella mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then why the two things exist. So studio session and good friends. So again, the mission of Futurist Color is to create accessible space for conversation and dialogue, particularly focused on like collective liberation. And even when I talk about collective liberation, it's liberation from the system that tries to narrow our identities as humans. Like they, to me that's like what we need to be liberated from mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then that way we can move freely as we really are and really unfold as we should as humans, as complicated non-perfect individuals, right? And just like explore ourselves in this like world. And so two, so we have like futurist color, I have futurist color, which is like the wearable garments and wearable conversations, but clothing can only go so far, right? You still need that proximity piece.

Speaker 2 (00:30:31) - So you can wear these things, they create space for conversation and they create opportunity for it, but you still need the proximity. So you need the closeness, you need to actually physically interact, you need to be in space and share space with people. And so we created two sort of like programs that allow that to happen. One of them is studio sessions, which is utilizing jazz and live music to bring people together within our studio space in Mario Logan. And then we also have a dinner series and partnership with Chef Works called Good Friends. And so Good Friends is a highly intentional physical gathering where we bring together 12 people, we make sure those 12 people do not know each other at all. There's no plus one. So everybody's just as uncomfortable as everybody else at the table. We don't tell them the location until the, like the week of.

Speaker 2 (00:31:23) - So again, there's like this intentionality behind making sure that there's like, there's a sense of like mystery and there's a sense of like curiosity that's built because of the unknowing mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then that collective unknowing. As soon as people get there, everybody is still trying to figure out, okay, what is this? What is this? But we're all collectively figuring that out together. And so that also allows people to not develop any preconceived ideas. So there's no sort of like preexisting bias of what it's gonna be. And you can't have any bias towards anybody there because you also know that you've been invited for free. So nobody's paid for this experience. So it's not a matter of like, oh, I have this type of money, so I'm coming to this experience. And then we also make sure we invite people from like different socioeconomic backgrounds.

Speaker 2 (00:32:11) - Um, so you'll have like a local activist sitting next to a politician sitting next to like a big name artist sitting next to an artist who's just starting out. So again, it's not based on social status, social cloud, it's really based on you get to come to the dinner because you have some intentionality be behind, like how you view community. And then every single dinner instead of connecting people based on the what they do. So instead of like people coming to the table introducing themselves, saying like, I am so and so and I am this artist that does this, this, this. And everybody being like, whoa, that's so cool. And then somebody else saying something and then people going like, oh, that's not as cool as that last person. So now we kind of view you a little bit lower. We want everybody to introduce themselves and really get to know each other, get to know one another, not for the what they do, but for the who they are.

Speaker 2 (00:33:10) - And I think in society, again, this is one of those constructs that I would say again, is something that we need to be liberated from the construct of connecting our worth and our identity to the what we do, as opposed to connecting our identity to our actual identity, to the ever-evolving state of self through the who we are. Uh, which takes a lot of inner work to really understand, to sit with, to detach ourselves from sort of the output that we give the world or give the system and really root the who we are in. You know, again, like that, that deep knowledge of self, which is an ongoing process. So I, I would also say that like I don't ever think there's a, into that process. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, no one is like a perfect knower of all self, right? Like we are all constantly in this state of becoming, we are all kind of learning about ourselves as we go.

Speaker 2 (00:34:13) - And it's a, it's a evolving process, but the, the dinner, so like we have those 12 people, they come to the space typically not held at a restaurant because also we wanna disconnect people from the context of a restaurant space. We don't want them to come in and say, oh, this is just another dinner. We want them to come in and say, wow, what is this? Is this a dinner? Is this a art experience? What am I getting into? Again, that constant sort of questioning and raising those questions. Then once they sit down, one of the most like important parts is that introduction. So we do like a round table or a camp flyer style introduction where it's more based on your name. And then that first question that we really asked is like, for the last one, the theme was love. First question that we asked was, what's something that love has taught you?

Speaker 2 (00:35:00) - So now everybody immediately has to go really deep. And what's been beautiful is because it's both strangers, there's like this sense of anonymity between everybody, the same as you get on social, where you don't know if you're ever gonna see this person again. And because you're not being presented with that heavy question, you have an opportunity to really work through it in that space. And again, you think that because it's strangers, you wouldn't, but because it's strangers, you also don't have to present yourself in any type of way that you might have with other people you might know. Because now some of those people who you might know from your past or been with you all your life, even though it's like you're close, there's still sometimes these preexisting structures and constructs that we have built and they have built for us that we tend to sort of move within.

Speaker 2 (00:35:50) - Yep. And so if somebody thinks we're the funny person, we always feel like we have to show up as the funny person for that person. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we might not be feeling funny that day. We still try and show up as a funny person for the other person. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So these dinners are something that really have allowed people to show up as who they are in that moment and present themselves in their fullness as who they are in that moment. And so what we've heard from the last few is it feels like, again, those hard conversations and those hard moments open up opportunity for immense healing, which is beautiful because you're at that table going through this journey with 12 other people who are also in the same space going through that same journey, might be at different stages of their understanding of that journey.

Speaker 2 (00:36:37) - And that's all all alright. And that's all beautiful and perfect. And so all of the experience we do, I would say are almost like these therapeutic esque experiences. Not not structured to be therapy at all, but because it's just about holding space for community where there is no perceived hierarchy. The jazz night, no perceived hierarchy, the dinners no perceived hierarchy, even within the futurist colored space, there's no perceived hierarchy. There's no one speaking down, there's the one being condescending. It's purely just holding space for one another and holding space for community. And so it kind of like, again, in that structure it becomes like a, an anti-system structure because at the end of the day, even with the good friends of the studio session, somebody asked me yesterday at our jazz night, like, so what are you getting outta this? And I was like, nothing.

Speaker 2 (00:37:34) - I get, I get, I get live music <laugh>, like I'm paying, I'm, it's like I'm paying the artist like a good rate for them to perform. So it's not like I'm getting free music, I'm working the space still. So I'm greeting everybody and I'm there like interacting with everybody. So it's not like I just get to sit down and just hang out. But what I'm getting is more so seeing the community be active mm-hmm. And being able to be in community with more people in an intentional way. Mm-hmm. And uh, like after that question, I began to also think, and I thought this before, I was like, there are some people who will spend, and as, as one should, they'll spend like their extra money on like that classic car mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? You'll buy the old Mustang Fastback and you'll pour like over a lifetime of that car, you'll pour maybe like $500,000 into it to go to shows to do X, Y, and Z.

Speaker 2 (00:38:28) - You're not making any profit at all mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But it brings you joy to do it. And I realized for me, the passion that I exist with is community. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so instead of me, and I would still want to, I still want that Mustang <laugh> that's like my dream car, but for me, I'll spend $500, $500,000 lifetime on like running these programs or with institutional help or whatever it is running these programs because it brings me joy to see people be in community with one another. Mm-hmm. And to see intentional community built as well as like if this could be a pattern for other people to also build intentional community. That to me is like the beauty of it. Because I even see like the studio sessions, jazz nights as a case study for again, how to sort of like move the, move the needle on urban planning or community building in a way that's grassroots. Hmm.

Speaker 1 (00:39:25) - Well, you know, when you were saying that you started hosting these jazz nights in Barrio Logan, that while traditionally the other stores and whatnot around were not open because you started doing this regularly, then more, you know, small businesses began to stay open longer or later or especially on those nights in order to cultivate more of that sense of community. So absolutely. Like that organic effect, you know, like you've seen happen, which is amazing. Yeah. I wanna transition a little, and also by the way mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you, your good friends is invite only. So anybody who's listening to this, I know, you know, <laugh>, you, you might wanna attend, but I love the intentionality that you all have to really get to know each person and to curate that experience in ensuring that the chef who's, you know, showing up that night is also making and feeling inspired by the theme.

Speaker 1 (00:40:16) - And so you're very intentional all along the way with everything that you do and including the thank yous that happen afterwards. And all of it is not just this one stop kind of experience, but that the, the ongoing lingering effect, like the thoughtfulness that you have to continue to cultivate that conversation is so wonderful. But I wanted to shift gears because one of the things that you had shared with me, one of the times that we chatted was about what it took for you to honor your family and yet continue to pursue the things that you wanted to pursue. Because I think so many people, myself included, and anybody listening may have found themselves in a similar situation for, you know, whatever reason, pursuing a career path, you know, choosing the person that they love, like all of that kind of stuff. So I'd love for you to share about that.

Speaker 2 (00:41:06) - Yes. I was literally, so I, we, we had that conversation before and I was literally just talking to somebody else about that yesterday. Ah, <laugh>. Um, so it's very fitting that that's one of the, the main sort of like points that we wanna hit on. Yes. So like with me and my family, my mom was always like a very supportive person. Even if she didn't understand the sort of trajectories I was gonna go in. Like she was the person who would like talk to my father and be like, yo, you gotta, you gotta try and let him do something or let him like find his own path. But there was definitely moments where she also was like, I dunno about that one. So my family ran a development company and then all of my family, so uncles, aunts, father, both grandparents on both sides, all entrepreneurs and all have their own businesses.

Speaker 2 (00:41:52) - Um, and all of their businesses sort of function within the same space where it's like development company, exterminating, landscaping, other people run, like house maintenance and all that type of stuff. And so when I first graduated school and I was even doing like an architecture program my senior year where I like worked with my family and the architect that helps with all of the homes that they were like building mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I was like set up to go into architecture. And so my first year in school I studied architecture, but really my focus, I really wanted to do urban planning and I, I like, loved that idea. I felt from seeing what my parents were doing and how I was like really transforming neighborhoods in a positive way by creating like this larger ecosystem of care around these sort of like housing, the housing that they were building.

Speaker 2 (00:42:41) - I was like, oh, this is how you actively utilize our skillsets and design and creativity to reshape our neighborhoods mm-hmm. To create lasting impact and lasting sort of economic growth for us and our people. So went my first year for that and ended up not liking it at all. Mm-hmm. Like, I enjoyed designing, so there was something there I enjoyed like getting an AutoCAD and like playing and making like really crazy buildings and structures, like that was super fun. But then when it came to the rest of the stuff, I hated it. Like again, it was like seeing that I was gonna have to function within the institutional space, seeing that I wasn't gonna be able to have any impact until I was like in my fifties, sixties. And as like a 18, 19, 20 year old or as like an 18 year old, I'm like, that's too long.

Speaker 2 (00:43:31) - I need to have impact right now. And then I like also took an art history class for the first time. Never taken one in like, uh, high school and learned about Basquiat. And again, I think for a lot of like young black artists coming into their own and like beginning to find about, find out about argue, learn about Basquiat, and you're like, oh, so this could be me. I could do this. And so what I saw of his stuff was that I wanted to have impact and create sustainable ecosystems of change for my community. What he did was create change within the art community that then ended up rippling out into other spaces that impacted pop culture. Pop culture impacted how we perceive commerce, commerce impacts ultimately how places are structured and how you sort of like redraw lines within neighborhoods, et cetera. So for me, I then was like, you know what, I wanna be an artist <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (00:44:25) - So then I stopped doing school. So I took time off and then was gonna go back home to like really sit and think like, okay, what should I do next? My family was upset, obviously, like they were paying for the school. Like I didn't have any scholarships cause I wasn't necessarily the best student. So like they were paying for school and then I just like stopped going. Mm. Super upset. And they're like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And then for them, they're like, they have a company, they're like, you know what? Safety, we worked hard. We created a safety net for our children, for our nephews, for our family. Like we have like a good safety net for people to sort of like, if you don't go to school, you can end up working for the family business. And so they're like, you know what?

Speaker 2 (00:45:05) - And it's not like working for the family business, like you'll be an executive. It's like if you work for the family business and you didn't go to school, you're going to do the hard labor <laugh>. So they were like, you can come back home, you can get your, like, I don't know what the actual license name is, but it's like, you can drive a dump truck and you can get a license for driving a dump truck. You can make like sustainable income, you'll be good. You can live and you can work your way from there in the media. I was like, absolutely not <laugh>. That sounds, that's why I'm not gonna go from being in school and university wanting to do architecture that's now driving a dump truck for you guys. <laugh> like, no. And then they're like, okay, maybe you can like go apply at UPS just so you can like find your time and really figure out what you wanna do.

Speaker 2 (00:45:45) - So they were trying to get me to just like find a job to like sustain, to not just like be living at home. And instead of doing that, I then pivoted and then went and lived with friends in New York and then sort of like, was like, oh, art. Yeah. See I wanna be an artist. And then like for some reason I was super excited to, again, new to art, so I was like super attracted to the starving artist lifestyle. <laugh>. She was like living on couches, gonna the comedy clubs, just living that life. And then ended up meeting my girlfriend who went to UPenn, which is an amazing school. And then she went to the Wharton Business School, an amazing business school. And it was like a blessing that I actually got to, I went and like stayed in Philly for a little bit. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (00:46:28) - And instead of going home, my family was like, come home. And I was like, all right, I'll come home. And then I just took a bus to Philly <laugh> and then ended up like sitting in and auditing her classes. And one of the classes happened to be on branding. Oh. And then when they were talking about branding, I was like, this is super cool. Like, it's like design and business. So it's like being able to take the things that I know about business from seeing my parents run a business and from wanting to be a business man when I was little, like that was like a thing. I was like, I wanna be a businessman. So like take my parents' briefcase and just like walk around with the briefcase. Nothing in it, just a child with candy and a briefcase. But it was like, business seemed cool and I was also really enamored with like, just wearing suits and ties for no reason.

Speaker 2 (00:47:11) - It was like, and this is just a side side quest story. Like there was a time where I went home my first year in college, didn't have a job, it was like for spring break or something. And I was like, you know what, I wanna be a businessman today. So I put on a student tie, and this is in university, so this is no longer a little kid, so there's no excuse <laugh> put on the suit and tie had like a little like work bag. So then like the messenger bags were cool. So I had like a messenger bag with some stuff in it, like a book that I hadn't read yet, but it was a book. So it looked smart. And then I rode the train downtown to like the financial district of Cleveland where there's a lot of accounting firms and law firms. And then I just went and sat in a building, like in the lobby <laugh>. And like I had my leg crossed and like my little Bri case and, and just had my book out again, wasn't reading it, but I was like, you know what? I feel businessy. And I felt businessy for like two hours. And I was like, alright, I, I hit the quota, I'm good. And then I went home, changed and just like went out with friends. Oh my God, that's

Speaker 3 (00:48:09) - Such a great story. <laugh>. I love that so much.

Speaker 2 (00:48:13) - <laugh>. But there was, there was something about like, so then when I like saw that business can be connected to creativity Yeah. And then have impact. And then when they, when they talk about it, they were talking about like the, the psychographic research and really understanding the audience and the customer and how you can really create space for the customer. And for that it was like how to sell products, right? And how to sell a brand and how to build a brand from what I took it as when I paired it with like what I wanted to, or planning and architecture, which is essentially create space where people can sort of like congregate. That's what, that's what I loved about architecture was that it's like these invisible, they're physical and like in reality structures, but the, the impact of them is almost invisible to us mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (00:48:57) - <affirmative> in that we see them and we walk through them and we walk by them every day and they actually shape how we perceive our world. They shape how we interact with one another. So there's so much power in urban planning and city planning and the structures that we existed daily. So much power. So that's why I loved it. And then in understanding branding, it does the same thing. It's like these invisible forces that really shape our world and that we, we interact with every day, but we don't understand like how they're actually shaping how we move through our day, how we see ourselves in the world. So advertising, media, et cetera, all shape how we see ourselves in the world and how we perceive ourselves or project ourselves into the future. So then for me, that was like my intention of why I wanted to like then pursue design.

Speaker 2 (00:49:44) - I was not good at articulating that at the time to my parents. I feel like if I would've articulated it that way, where it's like, no, I can do this and have just much impact and all of these organizations are gonna pop up out of nowhere and digital is gonna be a big thing. They would've been like, okay, I see it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I then was like, you know what guys? All right. Like, and again, the context is I am hanging out at a Ivy League university at one of the best business schools in the world. And so my parents are starting go like, okay, he's, he's with this girl, she's really smart. Getting 'em back on track. And then I'm like, all right guys, I'm gonna go to art school <laugh>. They're like, they're like, what? What do you mean gonna go to art school?

Speaker 2 (00:50:24) - What does that even mean? And they're like, what do you do with that? How do you even, how do you live with that? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I was like, for me, I feel like I knew what my soul and what my spirit or my body was like, this is what you can do. This is what you have a natural skillset set at. Because I would also like make clothes and make stuff in school and high school and people would always buy it. But I never saw that as an actual pathway. Mm-hmm. Because no one ever showed that pathway to me. My parents didn't show me that what they did was like, they had me in art classes, they had me in those things. So they nurtured it, but it was never a thing that I saw as a real pathway to financial stability or even just like professional stability, anything.

Speaker 2 (00:51:05) - So my pathway for creativity was architecture, urban planning. So it was like put, put your, put your passion aside, turn it into a hobby, and then pursue a lifelong career in something where you can sort of use that stuff. And then you can have your hobbies on the side. Right. Like, I feel like that's also what the system says. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then when I said to them, I'm gonna do art, I feel like that same sort of conversation began to arise again. Which is like, what can you do with that? How can you function in that space? And since I already wasn't living at home and I had already figured out ways to either do freelance, as I learned what branding was, I removed myself from the need of having to have them say yes for me to make my decision. Hmm. So I enrolled in the school, they ended up coming to the school cause I, they realized that I'm going to go to this school.

Speaker 2 (00:51:53) - And I think that is where some of the differences were. Like if I'm hard enough and I like have my mind made up, my family was never like, absolutely not. Mm. Right. Like they would st they still had like some level of support. They would just be questioning the entire time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But then once I got into the school and I started to like show them what, what this has potential to be, what I can do with it. And I started to actually make money based on the freelance work I was doing. Cause when I went back, like after not going back my first year, I definitely realized, like even for me, there was like a, okay, I need to get, I need to get stuff straight. Right? Like I, I can't just be floating out here.

Speaker 2 (00:52:33) - And then my father also got diagnosed with like cancer. Like, not like a harsh form, like it's cured now, but it was like he got diagnosed with that. And then I was going back to school at the same time. So it was like, I have to do this for, for my family. And I also have to my honoring of my family and my honoring of the work to my family to put in even like the legacy of fight for Black people to be in certain spaces. My honoring of that was to pursue my dream. Because at the end of the day, that's how I sort of in my head justified it without being able to articulate the complexities of what the world was gonna be in like 10 years. From that point, with the rise of Googles and all of the tech and all of that stuff, were designers and creative make really good money.

Speaker 2 (00:53:16) - At that time it was like, you graduate art school, you might be a barista or you can work in an advertising agency. It was like one of the two. It's like very, very like wide range. Or you can work at like inks or Staples as like the head designer there. So that's my parents saw and they're like, we don't want this for you, but I guess we'll trust you. But for me, again, it was like, what I realized is for me to honor all of the work that they had put in, it wasn't about following what they deemed the right path for me because they fought so I could have the freedom to choose, right? The freedom to exist and the freedom to pursue joy in whatever shape or form that is to us. And me and whoever. Like that's what liberation is. And so for me to pursue design or creativity, even against their initial will was me actually honoring.

Speaker 2 (00:54:06) - And then over time as that passion like deepened and developed and then an industry began to like truly form around that, they were able to see like, oh, this is actually like, this is the new x or gold rush or whatever it is, right? And then I think over time they really began to understand like, this is, this is what you are supposed to be doing. This is where you should be. And then when I started doing more stuff in community through the work that I do, I think that's when it all connected. Like particularly connected. Cuz then even for me, that's when it connected where I like went back to them and said like, all the things you guys put into me from use, even with like taking me to the construction sites every weekend or every summer or putting me in all of these like nonprofit programs or volunteer programs my entire life.

Speaker 2 (00:54:53) - It's like all of that stuff has now worked its way into the, the skillset that I've like trained over 10 plus years with design. And now I've merged those two things, which is like my, the inborn nature, the sort of trained nature that I got from my family and in this new skillset set of creativity, branding and design into the futurist color. So it was like, I feel like all wasn't realized until I had futurist color. Cause we, even when I was working in the design space, my family was still like, I don't know what he does. <laugh>, he's able to live in California, so we're proud. He pays for our dinners when we come out. So we're proud, but we don't know what he does <laugh>. And so for me there was still always that like, that's kind of weird family, just like they're proud, but anytime they ask, they're like, I don't know what he does <laugh>, he makes stuff on a computer.

Speaker 2 (00:55:44) - They'll tell their friends, like, he makes stuff on a computer. He does X, Y, and z. Like, and they would like about it, they would talk about it the same way as if I was a doctor or something like that. So I, I do have to think my parents for that. Like they would never like demean the job that I had. Yeah. But it was truly like when I started futurist color was when it, like, it came full circle where they could see, they could see the foundation that they laid. Yeah. And then the things that they put into me actually being expressed through the profession that I have. And so I feel like that's like the journey that we, that's the journey that we always go through where I feel like when we actually really follow the thing that we're deeply passionate about, it will always somehow come back around to pull and like extract the learnings from childhood and youth. And we'll apply that to the passion to actually produce a unique solution for our community or for like what we wanted when we were younger.

Speaker 1 (00:56:38) - Hmm. I mean, I wish that I could underscore that and like, you know, just really hit home because the way that you just articulated that, I think it helps anybody who's going through a challenge or a struggle, especially if you are feeling challenged by you know, your parents and what their idea was and being able to see that journey. Like it reminds me of, you know, when Steve Jobs was sharing in a graduation speech about how all of these like classes are him pursuing different interests, ultimately in the end all came together. And so yes, what you were also able to do to be able to go back to your parents and demonstrate to them like, I did honor you, I am grateful and it didn't look like the way that you thought, but here are all the ways that it's played out. Which I think is also such a gift to them because you know, now as a parent myself, like I can see that my daughter at age eight, I wanna encourage her to feel her feelings and express that.

Speaker 1 (00:57:34) - But the inner child within me that did not get that opportunity when I was younger, to feel those feelings. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> feels challenged by that. So I'm feeling this like kind of resentment almost of like, wait a minute, but you get this, but it's because I want you to have it. And yet I'm still human and I have my own feelings about it. And so I think that I understand like I have compassion for why, you know, parents have that idea. They just want their kids to be safe in whatever definition they have. Oh yeah. Insecurity. And I think one of the Oh yeah, so remarkable about you when we were talking too, is like when you decided to move to California, your parents like had an intervention to be like, are you sure? Oh yeah, this is what you wanna,

Speaker 2 (00:58:14) - Yeah. I mean for me, for me now it becomes a super funny story because again, I think I start to look at like maybe I paint people as characters in life. Not in a negative way, but it's like I think I like look at sort of these overarching patterns that I noticed within individuals. And so for me, that whole intervention was organized by my father. Then again, it was an intervention because I was moving to California, not because it was a drug addiction or anything like that. Yeah. It was like, I'm gonna California. And they're like, no, we need to do an intervention. So I came home one night in the summer and all of the lights were off our, our doors are typically unlocked in the old house where like our family could come in, cousins would always like pop by anytime of the night. So I walked in the door, there was like a flickering light in the den, which nobody usually sits in at all. And then I walk into that den and then my family is just sitting around the fireplace. And this is like mid-summer when it's like super humid in Cleveland. You do not need a fireplace, you do not need heat on, you need AC all night, all day. And so the fact that they had this fireplace on just let me know. Like yes, they were, it was like the most dramatic

Speaker 1 (00:59:21) - <laugh>

Speaker 2 (00:59:22) - Experience where they were just like, you, you shouldn't go, we, this might not be safe. Like we don't have family out there. Like all your family's here. Like you should be moving down to like if anywhere you should move. Like on the east coast where we have family and all that stuff. And in my head again, it was, I was pretty firm mm-hmm. <affirmative> in standing my position, especially after I had already chosen design. And I saw that that could be a successful pathway even against what they wanted me to do. When they said don't go. I said, well, I'm going. And that was that. And so for me it was, and then when I got out here, the same thing where it's like if I didn't come to San Diego, I don't know where I would be. Like, I might be in New York or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03) - But me being in San Diego, I can't, I can't det detach that from the starting of futurist color from the network that I've been able to build or like friendships that I've been able to make within San Diego or the agency that I was able to work at that then took me on this journey of working with these different organizations and brands that I was then able to like take and pour into the starting of my own thing or the restaurant that I'm a part of. Like if I didn't come to San Diego, maybe I would have none of that. I would have a different life and there'd be a complete different trajectory, which probably be all well and good mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But at the same time it was me making that decision to say like, no, I'm going to go because I believe in this and this is what feels right and this is what I feel at peace with right now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then it, it definitely feels like for me when you, when you honor that calling, when you honor that inner peace, that inner peace or higher power universe, whatever it is you believe will honor the fact that you followed that by delivering the additional opportunities and spaces that continue to allow you to sit in that peace. And it's not to say there's not gonna be tension and hardship, but it's like still being at peace all through that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18) - I love

Speaker 2 (01:01:18) - That. But like, again,

Speaker 1 (01:01:19) - I love that distinction, like the having that inner peace. I don't, I don't think I've heard it articulated in that way. Like I've heard if you perceive your passion then the money will come. Or if you, you know, do what you're meant to do, then like the opportunities open up. But the way that you articulated it just now about if you follow that inner peace, like despite the hardships or the challenges that you may experience that no matter what Yeah. You will still have that inner peace like that knowingness that yeah, this is what you're supposed to do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48) - Well yeah. Cause I think I, again, for me it was detaching it from the system of capital mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because if you follow your passion, money might not come. Yeah. But you still followed your passion. And what are we attaching value to? Are we attaching value to self-discovery, self-exploration, self-knowledge if we're attaching value to that. And yeah, you get unlimited value when you pursue your passion, but you might not get the money mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But then the whole thing is like, I feel like when we attach to the money, then we also attach to a place, right? So then you're saying like, I, I need to be in New York to pursue this, but I need the money to pursue it here. So I'm going to follow the things particularly and take the opportunities that are gonna be the money underneath that passion. But maybe you, you want to be in these spaces because social media said it's cool or a look to be in these spaces.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37) - Is it really what we wanna do? Is it really the opportunities that really allow us that self-examination? Like for me, I think there's a, there's a quote by an artist, like a really good musician, and I forgot it. I feel like I'm gonna have to send you the name and you in after this <laugh>, but he just said the worst thing that an artist can do is do their art for someone else. Which is to say, art is about exploring our position in the world. And because an artist is deeply empathetic, that position in the world ends up being able to be relatable to more people than just themselves. And so as soon as we try and do that for someone else, we are essentially exploring someone else's, or some organization's position in the world in order to be for profit. Art is really a matter of self-examination, self-understanding, looking at myself and looking at ourself in context of the larger system in society and how are we related to that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:37) - What is our connection to it? What is our relation to community? And then creating a visual articulation or a structural concept or a written piece or podcast or whatever that is that allows us to continue to examine that. Cause even for me, like you're, you're an artist in this because you're creating space to examine who you are and who your guests are on every single podcast. So that is, that is art. Art is about creating that space for conversation and dialogue and inner conversation and dialogue. And as long as we're able to do that, then we can grow, we can build empathy. And so I think like even when we talk about follow passion, sometimes, at least for me, I realize passion wasn't design, design is not my passion. Design is the skillset that I have to express my passion, which is actually community and people and bringing people together.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36) - That's my passion. And so I think it's like really sitting with ourselves to say like, what really is our passion versus what is our skillset to articulate that passion and to explore that passion. And that probably will change throughout our lives because again, we're constantly evolving beings and constantly shifting and yeah. So that, that's always why I would say like it's about following the inner peace, not about following where we think the money's gonna be, because that's not always gonna be there. Like for me, when I left the agency space, it wasn't about pursuing passion because I was like, if I pursue my passion then it will pay me at some time. Right? Again, it might not pay me financially, but it'll pay me in like loads emotionally, spiritually, I'll feel like clean, I'll feel at peace. That to me is like the payment. But then there was like an opportunity, I left the agency and there was an opportunity to work directly with Pharrell on launching his new Adidas shoes and like a whole new line of like product with Adidas.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35) - And this is before like the human race stuff came out. Mm-hmm. And so I didn't know what the product was and then I was like going to take it just because I'm like, yo, see I quit. This is an amazing opportunity. Why, why wouldn't I take it up? Like admired this person for a long time as like a creative and as individual. And I just didn't feel peace in doing it. I felt more peace in like really sitting with who I am, sitting with my emotions and like seeking even like therapy and all that stuff. And so I didn't take it. Huh. And I actually felt better not taking it and I don't have any regret in not taking it. And so to me that's, that's part of that is like following the inner peace allows you to actually maneuver. And it's not like something where it's just like, yo, follow your inner peace now do it <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19) - It's like a constantly like a checking. Yeah. And I think that was also like a, an understanding that I even gained through being in therapy and like all of these books I read around like all about love or Bell Hooks and Eric's Art of Loving or Pedagogy of Bill Press. All of these books, I think I was viewing as like these separate, these separate sort of things that I needed to hit in order to be like an awake human. And then in realizing through therapy that it's really just that core foundational piece of like when we have and we spend time really seeking knowledge of self, it makes all of those things run parallel to one another. Like it makes like healing. It is, it is this ongoing process. Self-knowledge is an ongoing process. Self-love is an ongoing process, but all of it actually takes us to be hyper present.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11) - So it's like be present in the moment would be like this little speaking piece that, or talking point that you'll hear on social media or healing is a point that you hear on social media. And again, we all separate. But then when you're really in that process of like self-knowledge, self-love healing, then you have to be hyper present in every single moment. Because every moment is a moment and an opportunity to reexamine and self-examine who we are in that given moment in our relation to the people that we're with. And so when we do that, then there's an opportunity to actually be more empathetic and hold more space for people in real time. So it's like it's, it's this ongoing inner dialogue and inner process of like seeking peace and following that pathway of peace. And again, I'm not perfect at it. I don't always follow the peace.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54) - I'm, sometimes I'm like, yo, there's some money here, let's go get it <laugh>. And then I'm like immediately hate my, don't hate myself. And I'm like, oh no, I'm in this like space of like, bad tension sucks. And I realized for me the spaces of peace are never really the spaces that are going to like profit me the most. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like I might be comfortable, I might be able to travel, I might be able to do all this stuff, but there's still tension. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's still like something that's sitting on my shoulders. It's not like a hundred percent peace. And I realize life is also gonna fluctuate between that because we do still live in a capitalistic society. We need money to exist. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that's always gonna happen. But yeah, for me it's like in all moments trying to seek the peace, realizing that we're not always going to be able to live in that peace. Cause we do still have to operate in the system that's gonna have us do things that are outside of that peace. Sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44) - Dude, I could just talk to you for hours and hours <laugh>. Cause everything that you share is always, it's so enlivening. It just really, I feel like it speaks to what my soul personally and I think so many other people who are aligned in listening to this. Like, what you really want as a soul on this earth, what you really wanna pursue. And it's just so easy given our culture and our society and, you know, the commerce, like how easy it is to fall prey to that trap of believing that those are the paths towards contentment and fulfillment. Yeah. When that's not necessarily true. So yeah. With all of that, I wanna ask you, if you could say f*ck saving face to something, anything, what would you say f*ck saving face about out <laugh>?

Speaker 2 (01:09:32) - Do I, do I need to say it in in those terms?

Speaker 1 (01:09:35) - I mean No, you could just say whatever, whatever, whatever that question for you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39) - Uh, it would be living according to someone else's standards. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45) - Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46) - Any anybody's standards, whether it's like family standards, parents standards, system standards, living according to anybody else's standards and not following the thing that you've been called to do.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58) - Mm-hmm. <affirmative> question for you as we close the podcast episode and not following the thing that, you know, you feel called to do. I think what if you're not a thousand percent sure what that is, you oh. Is something that you've found works to keep honing that and refining it and figuring that out?

Speaker 2 (01:10:18) - I think we all, uh, I feel like yeah. Maybe that, maybe not following the thing you're called to do is like one of those like hyperbolic things where it's like so extreme. Mm. I feel like for me, I follow these microsteps of micros, right? Like right now I'm not gonna, I'm not working an agency cause that's no longer fulfilling mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But at one point that was fulfilling from the design side. So to me it was about constantly, we'll always have these little passions that we all had, these little things that were like, oh, this is really cool and I'm really interested in this right now. I think doing all of them because all of them will build on top of one another, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like for me, working in the agency space wasn't something I looked down on or wasn't something that I'm like, dang, I wasted so much time working in the agency space, I should have just started this brand because I was making clothes in high school.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05) - It was like I needed to go through all of that and it was moving within like the agency space until I felt a particular tension. And then I was able to act on that tension with say two words that were way too close. I was gonna say tension with intention, but I was able to act on that tension with focus because of my experience that I had gained within the agency space. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so a lot of times when I talk to people that ask that same question when they're working somewhere, like if it's a barista or if it's somebody working in another space that they're not necessarily as happy with, but it's like sustaining them. I never like just quit that and follow whatever you wanna do. I think it's more continuing the space that you've been blessed to be in. And as you start to uncover a particular tension that you identify within society, culture or just a tension within yourself that you want to explore and express.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04) - Don't, don't, don't like downplay that don't like, um, make it little, don't make yourself small. Like pursue it. And so even when I speak to like one of the artists who's gonna be showing at our space next Friday, she was, she was a barista and then she was like, oh yeah, you know, like I find it weird to call myself an artist even though she was like sculpting all this stuff for the past, like x amount of years. And then my one thing there was like, no, you are an artist. Just say you're an artist. Hmm. You can still be a barista, you can still work as a barista, but what you are right now as an artist, that's what you want to be. That's who you are. That's what you're expressing, that's what you're exploring. You are an artist. So I think it's like, it's not speaking in and being, and it's not manifesting. It's literally just being the thing that you believe that you are and that you know that you're, Hmm,

Speaker 1 (01:12:53) - I love that so much. That was such a wonderful, you know, answer. Because I feel like in social media, we're often like, you know, pursue your why know your why. I'm like, what if you don't fully know your why? I was just in a manifesting like women's mastermind group and Yeah. You know, everyone was like, well, I put this on my vision board, I do this. And then one of my friends asked like, but what if you don't know? Like, what if those outcomes aren't the thing? And so someone else had said, well, what's the feeling that you wanna feel and what's the intention? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> you wanna have, and maybe for you it's different, like you pursue that as opposed to the outcome. Yeah. Or like, you know, the car, the house, the trip, the whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33) - Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34) - So if people wanna follow up with you more, where can they find you

Speaker 2 (01:13:37) - On the ig? That's like the only place I really am. I'm actually, I'm actually about to make my first TikTok video. Ooh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44) - I just got into

Speaker 2 (01:13:44) - TikTok Monday too. <laugh>. Yeah. I feel like I've been planning it way too long. Yeah. To make it real, like now it's gonna feel so forced. It's gonna feel very millennial of me. But on Instagram at Irwin Hines. And so that's E R W I N, underscore Hines, h i n e s.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05) - Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07) - No, thank you. Thank you. This was, this was a pleasure. It's a great way to start off like a a, a Friday morning.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14) - If you're curious about N L P or you wanna connect with me and learn more, please do go to wildheartedwords.com. You'll find the contact form there. Send me a message. And I would love to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you'd like to support me and this show, please go to iTunes and leave your review. It means so much to me and it'll help others find this podcast. I'll catch you in the next episode. And if you'd like to stay in touch between now and then, please visit wildheartedwords.com and sign up for my weekly newsletter. I've had people share with me that it's the best thing to arrive in their inbox all week. Aloha.

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Keywords: F*ck Saving Face podcast, mental health, emotional health, Asian Americans, marriage, relationships, unconventional, space, epigenetics, inner work, healing, duality

Judy Tsuei

Brand Story Strategist for health, wellness, and innovative tech brands.

http://www.wildheartedwords.com
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EP 92: [Mindfulness] I Am Enough: Choosing Greatness, and Peace