EPISODE 62: KETAMINE THERAPY WITH DR. SAM KO

Sep 24

MEET DR SAMUEL “SAM” KO

Samuel Ko, MD, is a Board Certified Emergency Physician and the Founder of Reset Ketamine medical clinic in Palm Springs, California. He is committed to providing patients with an innovative and rapid treatment for depression, anxiety, PTSD, & chronic pain so they can go back to living a whole, healthy life.

Connect with Dr Ko:

Website: www.resetketamine.com

IG: www.instagram.com/resetketamine

YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/resetketamine

Facebook: www.facebook.com/resetketamine

Twitter: www.twitter.com/resetketamine

Takeaways

If you listened to Episode 61, then you’ll see how I went from being an elementary representative of “just say no to drugs!” with the D.A.R.E. Program to becoming a yoga teacher and understanding that there are ways to explore consciousness through psilocybin, LSD, DMT, and other substances that I was taught growing up as a traditional Chinese kid never to go near. That’s why I’m extremely excited to share with you today’s episode, where I had the opportunity to interview Dr. Samuel “Sam” Ko on how he’s using ketamine therapy to break through really challenging mental and emotional health issues, like PTSD.

Dr. Ko also shares his own journey through burnout and details of his personal development exploration to really find the things that worked for him in his personal life and professional practice.

We also cover:

Transcript

Judy Tsuei 0:00

We are at the final interview for season one. And I'm so excited if you've been listening to the podcast this whole entire season. Thank you so much for joining me. If you're new to the show, then Welcome.

Judy Tsuei 0:11

I'm really excited for today's guest, especially, because you know, the entire podcast is about breaking through taboo topics and really empowering mental and emotional health for Asian Americans. And what better way to close out the season than to talk about ketamine which on Monday's episode, I mentioned that, you know, it's been widely known as a party drug, you might have heard of a Special K. And on Monday's episode you also heard me share about my experience with DMT, a little bit about mushrooms, a little bit about Iowa casca. Just all of these different modalities in which people are expanding their consciousness and spirit.

Judy Tsuei 0:46

I say all of this with a caveat that you are your own responsible human beings. So please do the homework, do the research, do what's right for you. But I wanted to at least offer you an opportunity to hear an interview with a doctor who's using ketamine therapy to break through really challenging mental and emotional health issues like PTSD.

Judy Tsuei 1:05

Samuel Ko MD is a Board Certified emergency physician and the founder of reset ketamine, a medical clinic in Palm Springs, California, which if you haven't been to Palm Springs, I love that town. He's committed to providing patients with an innovative and rapid treatment for depression, anxiety, PTSD, as I mentioned earlier, and chronic pain so they can go back to living a whole healthy life. You can find more about him at reset ketamine.com. And those are also the same usernames on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook and Twitter.

Judy Tsuei 1:39

What I especially enjoyed about this interview is hearing Dr. Ko's own journey through burnout through his personal development journey really finding the things that worked for him and his personal and professional practice. Enjoy today's interview.

Judy Tsuei 2:01

Welcome to the F*ck Saving Face podcast. I'm your host, Judy Tsuei, and together we'll explore mental and emotional health for Asian Americans, especially breaking through any taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Let's make your story beautiful today.

Judy Tsuei 2:17

Welcome back to the fck saving face podcast where we talk about all things taboo to support mental and emotional health for Asian Americans. I'm really excited to have Dr. Sam Ko here today, he is going to be talking about ketamine, which before I like garble anything up, I'm gonna let him explain all about it. But the reason that I wanted to bring him on is because, you know, we all know about how taboo mental and emotional health are, in general, I think for any population, but especially for the Asian American population. And I've been loving interviewing Asian American men lately, because I feel like you are very much unicorns in different mental emotional health fields.

Judy Tsuei 2:53

And then also, you know, when it comes to innovative forms of therapy for you know, the different things that Dr. Ko will talk about that he helps address, I think that there can be kind of like taboo stigma around let's say, like CBD, you know, before that was like so controversial to be able to use that for like a holistic multi modality. And so I think when it comes to ketamine, people might have experienced it as like a club drug or, you know, a Special K or something like that. So, this is here to kind of debunk some of those myths. But in addition to everything else, we're kind of going to get into some of the personal stories that Dr Ko has to share. Because before we jumped on this conversation, we had a little bit of a conversation about what it was like to grow up, you know, Asian American, and some of the things that you experienced in your family of origin are in your profession. So before we go any more into that, I'd love to turn it over to you to introduce yourself.

Dr Samuel Ko 3:46

Thank you so much for inviting me to your amazing podcast and I'm honored to be such a guest. Yeah, so ketamine is a medication that was used as a general anesthetic initially approved by the FDA in 1970. But more recently, it's being known as a medication that's used in treatment resistant depression, PTSD, anxiety, OCD, and some forms of chronic pain. And so there's been a lot of research a lot of interest for IV ketamine use, and it's a game changer for a lot of patients.

Dr Samuel Ko 4:19

As far as my background, I started working with ketamine and the emergency department because we use it really routinely for procedural sedation for patients who are getting, you know, like a broken arm repaired or if it's a little child with a facial laceration. We'll be using the ketamine in that scenario. But recently, about three years ago, I decided to open up an outpatient ketamine infusion clinic in Palm Springs, California. And it's been such an amazing journey, not only for my patients, but for me, I've learned a lot to help a lot of patients, especially some of these patients who have treatment resistant conditions, and it's so gratifying. To see these patients when, you know, they've tried SSRIs, and they've tried aect, or transcranial magnetic stimulation or other forms, and you know, they feel hopeless, and so it's just incredibly rewarding to be able to play a role in their healing journey.

Judy Tsuei 5:14

That's amazing. How long has your clinic been around?

Dr Samuel Ko 5:17

We opened in April of 2018. And yeah, it's been, you know, about three years, three and a half years now. And it's been a lot of fun.

Judy Tsuei 5:27

That's so exciting. So you know, I've listened to some of your other interviews and you talk a bit about consciousness, just how it relates to ketamine. But before we dive into that, one of the things that I think is interesting is when you talk about using it as an anesthetic, it was because it has this dissociative property between the mind and the body. Can you explain that a little bit more?

Dr Samuel Ko 5:46

Yeah, that's a great question. So ketamine is an MDA receptor antagonist, and methyl d aspartate, which is one of the receptors in our brain, stimulated by a neurotransmitter called glutamate. And that's one of the ways that ketamine works on the biochemical level. But the experience for the person receiving the ketamine, it feels, it's also known as a dissociative anesthetic, because it dissociates the mind from the body, which is great, because when someone is having, you know, a lot of pain, then we're able to disconnect the mind from the body.

Dr Samuel Ko 6:21

And so we're able to do these various things to the body in a procedural sedation type of setting, to you know, put a bone back together or to stitch up a face. And I think this dissociative effect is also beneficial for patients who may have, you know, some PTSD or depression because it almost it's like, getting a new perspective on that depression or getting a new perspective on that PTSD experience. So, you know, just stepping away and taking a break from your mind, also known as the default mode network, that can be really beneficial because it just gives you a new paradigm, a new perspective.

Judy Tsuei 6:56

I think in your other interviews, you kind of talked about some similarities between that and mindfulness practices.

Dr Samuel Ko 7:02

Yeah, so one of the there was a really interesting research project where patients were receiving ketamine and they placed them on E GS, which are electron cephalograms. And they'll put these electrodes all over the brain, or I mean, on the skull, and then they're measuring the brainwave activity. So they compared that group of patients receiving ketamine and their eg pattern compared with these long term meditators. You know, people have been practicing for 10 to 20 years.

Dr Samuel Ko 7:29

And what they found was that both of those groups started entering a similar brainwave state. And so it's interesting because, you know, I'll get patients who are meditators. And they'll say, yeah, it felt like I was just in a really deep state of meditation. Yeah, it's really interesting. Some patients have said, they talk about being an eternal now just being really present in the moment. Because with ketamine, there's a bit of a time distortion. So it's like, hey, has it been 10 minutes? Has it been one hour, and there's a sense of like, eternal analysis that patients describe related to their ketamine experience?

Judy Tsuei 8:05

That's incredible. And you know, one of the things that you told me before too, is that because there are certain conditions that seem treatment resistant, ketamine has this ability, even in one session to potentially have substantial effects. Can you speak to some of that? And then the next question I'm going to ask is the four stages that you were talking about? Because I think most people are like, wait, what is happening? Like, what? What's going on when you have one of these treatment sessions? So whichever one you want to speak to first?

Dr Samuel Ko 8:31

Yeah, so let's talk about the four stages or the four mechanisms of action. And I break it down into like, the biological mechanism of action, which is, you know, going back to the nfda receptor, the glutamate neurotransmitter, and how, you know, ketamine can be can block the activity of glutamate. So there's that component happening, which in turn, causes neurogenesis. So literally neurons being formed brain cells, as well as increased connections between neurons. So those are known as synapses. And because of that, that increases neuro plasticity inside of the brain.

Dr Samuel Ko 9:06

A lot of the times we think, Oh, yeah, you know, the brain you get, it doesn't change, it's permanent, but there's actually neuroplastic changes that occur. And ketamine seems to facilitate that, through releasing a hormone in the brain called brain derived neurotrophic factor, which again, is increases neurogenesis and neuroplasticity. So that's the biological mechanism. And then you have the psychological mechanism. And, you know, there's we know about like, the subconscious, conscious mind and then the conscious mind, and ketamine seems to allow patients to kind of go into that unconscious mind.

Dr Samuel Ko 9:41

And you know, they'll have these, for example, repressed emotions, or memories, you know, things that have just been held down for such a long time, they weren't even aware of it. And then during the ketamine experience, it'll just kind of come up to the surface. So from that portion, it seems like it's allowing a person to kind of mentor that unconscious subconscious mind, deal with things that they haven't necessarily dealt with. And then the third mechanism would be the functional mechanism. So we have a portion of the brain, that's called the default mode network dmn.

Dr Samuel Ko 10:12

And this default mode network is where when we're not doing anything, when we're at a resting state, when we're daydreaming, just not focused on any activity, certain portions of the brain light up. And this is where we believe kind of these old chronic thought patterns may live. So someone may have a self defeating, thought pattern like, Hey, I'm ugly, or Hey, I'm not good enough, or, hey, you know, I'm not worthy. And so the default mode network seems to be where these thought patterns live. So what's cool about ketamine is that it actually disrupts the default mode network during that experience. So it's kind of taking a break from the mind.

Dr Samuel Ko 10:50

And in turn, when you're able to take a break from those chronic self defeating thoughts, patterns and beliefs, then you can go in and insert new patterns and beliefs, which is related to the intention that someone has during the ketamine infusion, the last stage, or the mechanism would be the spiritual component. And this is something that's not explained by modern medical science. We can't physically, you know, measure the spirit. But I feel like a lot of our patients will have these feelings or experiences where they're, you know, they'll feel a sense of connection to God, or they'll feel a sense of connection to humanity.

Dr Samuel Ko 11:26

And it's interesting, because once they have that experience, like, Hey, you know, I am more than me, like I am connected to these other people, it gives them this, like, I don't know, like refreshment, or just this new sensation of like, hey, it goes greater than me. Like, there's things that are beyond me, kind of a transcendental space. And in turn, that leads to healing. Because when we're just so focused on ourselves, and our own issues, it's nice to take a break and be like, hey, there's more than just me. There's, you know, other people, their society, there's Earth, you know, so all four of these mechanisms of action seem to play a role for therapy and ketamine.

Judy Tsuei 12:02

Hmm. That's so fascinating. You know what that fourth stage, I'm always so fascinated by the spirituality of things, especially when scientists also embark on that spiritual science, because I think it can't be explained. And so for so many, I think, you know, Western methods of treatment, you want to be able to prove it like clinically and otherwise. So speaking to that, it reminded me of DMT. And in terms of, you know, what people might have heard in regards to accessing the quote, unquote, like God molecule, and that sense of expansiveness, one of the clients that you work with, you had mentioned in an interview experience, like ego death, essentially, and how, you know, terrifying that must be because I think it's innately programmed within all of us to be afraid of death, or to have some sort of feelings about it. So can you explain, you know, like, some of these experiences in terms of what you've seen clients come through? And, you know, the transformation? Perhaps?

Dr Samuel Ko 12:59

Yeah, that's a great question. So there was a really interesting study, you know, talking about this near death experience, because I'm just fascinated by that. They took an account of people who actually had near death experiences, whether it was a cardiac arrest, or some sort of operative complication, or a stroke or cracks in it. And these patients survived. And they would type up or write up their accounts of that near death experience. And then there was another category of people doing DMT, or Ayahuasca or psilocybin or ketamine, and after those experiences, they would also write up, you know, a narrative of their experiences.

Dr Samuel Ko 13:36

They plugged up both of those stories into the, into a software program, and analyzed those stories for semantic similarities. And what they found was that the ketamine experience, most mirrored the actual near death experience. And so going to this concept of someone can have a ketamine experience. And while they're doing that, enter this near death stage where they feel like they've died or they feel like they've passed away. And of course, physiologically, because they are at the clinic, they're being monitored, heart rates, fine oxygen level, we're monitoring everything. So they're not biologically dying. But psychologically, they do feel like they're dying.

Dr Samuel Ko 14:16

And we've had patients experiences multiple times, I remember one patient, we gave him a pretty high dose of ketamine, and then he comes out of it. And he says, Hey, Dr. Ko, I died. And now that I faced my death, I do not have any other fears. Hmm. And it was so profound, because, you know, that is one of our greatest fears, right? We know that our time on earth is finite. And so we don't like to talk about it. We don't like to think about it. But if you were able to come to terms with it, and say, Hey, this is going to be a part of my journey. This is going to be part of my life, and it's going to end and recognizing that and seeing that and having kind of a life review of you No all the things that we've experienced and maybe all the wrongs we did, and the joys we've had, I feel like just gives us a greater sense of appreciation.

Dr Samuel Ko 15:08

And actually just talking about this makes me think about this story or this concept of like, hey, if someone were to give you a bouquet of a dozen plastic roses, versus a dozen real roses, which one is more valuable? And obviously, the answer is the, you know, the the one that's real. And well, why is that? Well, one of the reasons I believe is because it's finite, right, the plastic roses are gonna last forever. But the ones that are given to us that are live that are fresh, we know that in three to four to five days, they're going to fade out. And because of that temporary illness, we can learn to appreciate it even more, which is analogous to our life.

Judy Tsuei 15:47

That's so fascinating. I've never heard that analogy before. I think that that's remarkable. And it really helps to put things in perspective. When you are working with a patient, you are in the room with them the whole time. And you know, can you explain how you kind of facilitate this process? I know that before, when I spoke with you, I asked how you potentially combine this with other therapeutic modalities so that the person coming in can truly get that transformation that they're seeking or the healing that they're looking for. Can you explain to me how you work with a patient? Yeah,

Dr Samuel Ko 16:14

Absolutely, Judy. So there's four stages that we work with for the ketamine patients. Number one is preparation. So like five days prior to their treatment, we have them kind of do like a detox from you know, news and social media, horror movies, violent movies, etc. pornography, just take a break from that. We also have them decrease or restrict completely their alcohol usage, their marijuana usage, just to take a break, clean the mind, along with suggesting you know, being in nature, meditation, journaling, connecting with positive influences, etc. So we have like a preparation, initially. And then the next stage is the intention.

Dr Samuel Ko 16:55

So having the patient focus on an intention of why they're doing the Academy, what's their vision, what's their outcome that they want to focus on? Because that intention is really crucial to the experience, because, as I mentioned earlier, ketamine facilitates neuroplasticity. And it's like, well, if the brain is changing, and there's neuroplasticity occurring, well, where's it going? What are we changing it into, and that's where that intention component comes into. The third stage is the experience of the Academy. So actually just experiencing the experience, we have our patients, they'll come into the clinic, they will have eyeshades, we have a specific playlist, so it's more going internal connecting with their body connecting with their innate wisdom.

Dr Samuel Ko 17:38

So that's the experience stage. And then the last stage is the integration. And by integration means kind of like doing the homework that one needs to do. So for example, someone's like, you know, what, I really need to take a break from alcohol, or, Hey, you know what, I need to start exercising more, or Hey, you know, I need to in that relationship, or, hey, I need to change my job. So taking action, based upon the experience that one has, that's that integration, which can also be facilitated by talking with a therapist, an integration specialist, a life coach, etc. That's all very useful.

Judy Tsuei 18:12

That's fascinating. And when it comes to different reasons that people seek you out, I know that you had mentioned like treatment resistant conditions, but are there other like, you know, as you were talking about integration, or being able to break through pattern thinking, I think that those are things that I would benefit from So who are the people that you feel like really benefit from ketamine treatment?

Dr Samuel Ko 18:32

So that's really interesting. So ketamine, the way we're using it right now, Judy, it's off label. So and by off label, we mean, like, hey, it's FDA approved for one indication, ie general anesthesia, procedural sedation. So it's approved for that off label when we're using it for depression and PTSD and anxiety. That's how we're using it in the clinic. Now, there's like super off label, which I would say is like, you know, people who don't have a diagnosis, and they're like, Hey, I just want to be more creative, or, hey, I have this thing. It's not really bothersome, but I want to, you know, work on it.

Dr Samuel Ko 19:06

So we're not really using it for that indication, because ketamine is a scheduled drug. And we want to use it with a lot of integrity, a lot of respect, at least at our clinic, we're doing it very in a medical approach, unless recreational and personal, psycho spiritual development work. So we're really focused on patients who already have a diagnosis of major depressive disorder, or generalized anxiety disorder, or social anxiety disorder, like one of these diagnoses, and they've already made, you know, they may have tried, you know, a medication and they're like, Oh, those are too many side effects. So because it's already like, off label and it's a little bit on the kind of, I guess, the fringe of medical care, we want to not push that boundary too far. But in the future, you know, things may be different.

Judy Tsuei 19:53

Thank you for answering that. So, you know, going back to your own personal story, I know that you used to practice in the ER. And you know, part of what kind of led you on this journey was you shared one story where you know you, as a doctor, you're witnessing a lot of trauma and the potential burnout that people go through. And you know, I think like so many different careers and professions, there's all these side effects that happen that we're not really trained to handle or don't know about. And especially for you, you were mentioning an example of, you know, delivering, like the worst news to a family member that their family members passed, barely having any time and then immediately going into the next situation.

Judy Tsuei 20:30

And so as part of your self care, you then went on to, you know, shamanic work coaching, all these different types of things. So I'm curious if you could take us through your story. And even like, you know, I'm gonna say that as an Asian American, you did become a doctor. The path that parents that you forth, but I'm curious about, you know, just your own personal story, and any experiences that you've had of what you feel like your Asian American identity may have contributed to that, or, you know, brought you down a certain direction?

Dr Samuel Ko 21:04

Yeah, well, that's a big question. Long story. So going to the Asian American words. Yeah, so I'm living the Asian American dream, you know, thank you, Mom and Dad. And, you know, I think I heard this quote that our destinies are given to us by our mother. And that was, I believe, Napoleon Bonaparte t who said that. And so how that relates to my story is, yeah, I had a lot of influence. And what's the word highly influenced to become a physician because my parents were immigrants to the United States, and they wanted something really stable for their kids. And, you know, this is what a lot of Asian kids feel my background, I'm Korean.

Dr Samuel Ko 21:49

So and I was born in Korea. So when we came to the United States, there was a lot of pressure. And yeah, I decided to do it. And when I was in high school, junior high school, etc, growing up, like score really came easily for me, like I was, thank God. And I just naturally, and was inclined to like learning biology and taking chemistry and, you know, just somehow, like, just easily memorizing anatomical structures and chemical structures. I was like, Alright, well, I guess I'm good at this science stuff. Yeah. And I pursued it, I was pre medical studies, and in Seattle, Washington, and took the MCAT. And did well got into medical school, went to upstate New York, University of Rochester. And then I decided to specialize in emergency medicine.

Dr Samuel Ko 22:39

And, you know, emergency medicine is interesting, because I practice it for 10 years. And I leave out of all the specialties that has the highest rates of burnout, I believe over 50% of emergency physicians are burnt out. And I personally experienced that as well. And it was, it was interesting, because it happened early on. I remember when I was you know, I started when I was 18, the whole pre medical route, and then you know, college, med school, residency, etc. Like I did everything. I was like this high speed train on a track with a destination. So when I'm 30 years old, I've reached the pinnacle of you know, what my goal was, I've reached this Mount Everest of becoming an attending physician.

Dr Samuel Ko 23:24

And it was interesting, because once I got to that point, I will, I was surprised, because I wasn't as happy as I thought I would be. And it was so disappointing. And I was like, man, I worked so hard. I did all of those tests. I studied on the Friday, Saturday nights, like non stop, and I reached the pinnacle, which, you know, was the promised land like, hey, once you become this physician, you're going to be, you know, the happiest you've ever been. And there was literally a point after I had practiced for about a year, maybe two or three years. And I was like, You know what, I don't want to do this. Like, I'm just gonna quit. And this isn't what I signed up for. And instead of quitting, I decided to go part time. I just cut down, you know, drastically the number of shifts that I was doing. And I just started doing all of this other work.

Dr Samuel Ko 24:13

I started reading books. I started going to life coaching training, I started going to seminars, I started learning about just neuro linguistic programming, and just taking all these conferences traveling all around the world going to the Amazonian jungle seeing shamans. And that was probably like a four to five year process. Yeah, it was quite a bit of time and while I was doing all of this also continuing to work part time. But what I noticed was that with each of these journeys and with with each of these learnings, like I became more fortified and I became stronger. And I almost felt like you know, I had these wings that had become broken, that were, you know, just cracked and with each of these journeys and these conferences and these seminars like each time, they just got a little bit stronger, a little bit stronger, open, stronger.

Dr Samuel Ko 25:06

And as a result, I was like, you know what I want to do something where I can really make an impact, where it's also aligned with my life purpose. And, yeah, that's one of the primary reasons that I opened up the ketamine clinic is, like, I know what it feels like to be in pain, I know what it feels like to, you know, have the suffering. And, like, I want to facilitate and help patients get these transformational experiences, so that they can also have their wings kind of reset and to be able to fly fully because, yeah, like, it's, it's, it's incredibly gratifying to be a part of that process. And I know is also a part of my life purpose. And just to tie that into the very end, you know, I had mentioned Napoleon, he said, Hey, you know, our destinies are given to us by our mom, like now, I do you understand? Yeah, I am living my purpose. And there were a lot of challenges, a lot of downs and ups. But right now, the way I'm living what I'm doing right now, it's it is like, I do know that it is part of my life purpose.

Judy Tsuei 26:07

That's remarkable. Did your parents have any idea what ketamine was, before you started opening your clinic?

Dr Samuel Ko 26:14

they did not have any idea about it. But it's interesting, because at a certain point, they're like, mirbeau, my dad, he's like, hey, Sam, you can do whatever you want, like, you've already become a physician, like we trust you. And they were fully supportive of, you know, this endeavor.

Judy Tsuei 26:29

That's so wonderful. So I'm really curious, because of your personal journey and your professional journey, what have you learned about consciousness? I know another big question.

Dr Samuel Ko 26:42

Well, that's a big question. What have I learned about consciousness? I would say the first thing is, it's hard to know, like, I would say, the first is I don't know. And maybe the little that I do know, is just some ideas that I've been thinking about consciousness is, is a gift. And, you know, thank God, we have this ability to be conscious. And, you know, there's this scientist, and he talks about how consciousness may not actually originate from our brains, because that's kind of the, the current model is like, hey, the brain is the source of consciousness.

Dr Samuel Ko 27:20

And there's this other concept, which is controversial. And he believes that the consciousness may actually come from another source, where the brain is actually the receiver of consciousness. So the example would be like, you know, you have a TV, and the TV is not actually generating the images from the show, it's actually receiving the images. And so maybe it's possible that our consciousness is also like that, where instead of the brain producing it, we're just receiving it, and then how that connects to, you know, going back to Universal Consciousness, maybe we are actually all one universal consciousness.

Dr Samuel Ko 28:02

And we have these little human brains. And we're, you know, we think we're all separate doing our own thing. But it's actually connected to this giant, universal consciousness, which Carl Jung talks about how when we go when we go to sleep, will go, you know, connect to that universal and consciousness, and which is the reason why people have similar dreams and archetypes and symbols that show up. So yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting. But again, trying to understand consciousness is incredibly difficult. I would say, someone once said that it's like the eyeball trying to look at itself.

Judy Tsuei 28:35

Hmm, that's a really good explanation. What you were talking about in terms of that shared global consciousness, and then what we talked about before near death experiences when I was an editor of a yoga and live music events online magazine, we ended up attending this event where Don Miguel Ruiz, Jr. was there and all these other people and then there was this one man who, you know, we got there late, so I wasn't really sure like what was happening, but he was a medium and so that show with like, Jennifer Love Hewitt, like way back when was apparently based on his experiences and whatnot.

Judy Tsuei 29:07

And he was like a small man with like, a handlebar mustache, almost. And he was very, like, entertaining. And he was saying that, you know, when he was younger, he had this experience of being able to see like colors within people. And so he asked his mom, like, you know, what is it that I'm saying? And she's like, well, you're saying, like, you know, especially like the green and the heart center was how much people love themselves. And he pointed out, but like, I don't see it in everyone. She's like, not everybody loves themselves that much. And then he said in all of his experiences with people who'd passed on when they come back to speak to him, what he understands about that global consciousness is that we are all connected as though we're one giant tapestry, and we're all like, woven into the tapestry.

Judy Tsuei 29:48

So we all are threads within that and that at the end of our lives, were asked to reflect upon our thread and how we contributed to the tapestry as a whole. And I i've always remembered that and thought like, wow, that's really remarkable way to kind of look at your life and how you live it. And you know, just how you participate in a greater community was really fascinating. So I have two more questions for you. One is, is there a question I haven't asked you that you really want to talk about? one topic, one thing that's burning on your heart, or your mind, something you want people to know.

Dr Samuel Ko 30:21

see one topic that you haven't asked about, you know, I would actually, you kind of mentioned it at the beginning, but about Asian Americans and mental health, and, and related to the podcast name, like fuck saving face, right? So it's challenging, you know, as because we have this, these cultural standards and cultural norms of like, Hey, don't ask for help, or, hey, you have to put up a certain image and, you know, drive a certain car, and you know, you can't share, you know, your experiences. You know, I think it's important for Asian Americans in particular, to be aware of mental health issues and themselves and their families, and ask for help.

Dr Samuel Ko 31:04

I think South Korea has one of the highest rates of suicide, and I attributed to the fact that people aren't talking about it. So I really want to highlight the importance of, you know, asking for help, it's okay to have these issues of depression and anxiety, PTSD. And, you know, there's also epigenetic changes in the Asian Americans like, where things that have happened to our grandparents and great grandparents have actually been passed down via epi genetics to us, and we're still not addressing those issues, or we get to address those issues so that when we passed when we also have children that we can kind of give them a clean slate. So yeah, I would say, you know, just addressing the importance of mental health, especially in our communities.

Judy Tsuei 31:52

I love you, thank you for saying that. I underscore that completely. Like, just I really wish that. Well, I mean, I always say that we are the kind of like the most current point of our lineage. And so we have so much power to shift that whatever the narrative has been around, and like you said, like, sometimes we're not even aware, we're not even aware of like the legacy that has been carried forward. But knowing that we are powerful, and your other interview, you're also, you know, one of the host asked what you would want to share with our audience, and the whole podcast was about depression, and you were reminding people like you can get through this, there is support out there available for you, you're not alone.

Judy Tsuei 32:33

And I think when you're in that depressive state, it can be really hard to think clearly, there's that mental fog that happens, this woman whose books I love, she talks about mental health in a way where she's like, Can you imagine having a disease that makes you want to murder yourself? Like, it's the most fucked up thing. And like, when you're in that state, it's so hard to recognize that you're there. So I think that one of the other things that ketamine is really great for that, you know, someone else mentioned in the podcast, was that suicidal ideation, like, you know, if they're experiencing that, then this is a really great opportunity to kind of shift that direction of where that's headed. And you kind of lead into the final question, which is, you know, along the lines of fuck saving face, what do you wish that either, you know, you could tell other people about that, or, you know, someone else said to you, or just something that, you know, challenges the idea of having to save face?

Dr Samuel Ko 33:25

Yeah, I would say, Yeah, fuck saving face, because life is short. And tomori. Right? So, the saying that you remember, you're going to die. And we're going to be here for a very short period of time in the grand scheme of things. And so what what are you worried about? Right, like, you're going to be here for 70 to 90 years, 100 years, if you're lucky. And it's just a blip in time. So do what you want. Be with who you want to be with. express yourself fully, freely, because this is such a short precious time on this earth. So because it is fuck saving face, do what you want, be happy, pursue the things you want to do. follow your bliss.

Judy Tsuei 34:12

Thank you for sharing that. If people want to follow up with you, where can they find you?

Dr Samuel Ko 34:16

Please check out our website, reset ketamine.com. You can follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, reset ketamine, which is spelled R-e-s-e-t-k-e-t-a-m-i-n-e. So please check us out. Please give us a follow. And yeah, I would love to be in contact.

Judy Tsuei 34:38

Yeah. And if anybody's in California, they can visit you in lovely Palm Springs, which is such a wonderful place to be. And come visit you in person. Well, thank you so much for today's time and interview.

Dr Samuel Ko 34:49

Thank you, Judy. It's been a pleasure and keep up the good work.

Judy Tsuei 34:53

And that's it. That's our last interview for season one. Come back in September for season two. And if you haven't already, please go to fuck saving face comm forward slash you, that's why oh, you so that you can share your thoughts. So that you can tell me a little bit more about yourself, I would love to get to know you as the listener to this show. As I've mentioned before, this is an opportunity for you to share your thoughts.

Judy Tsuei 35:18

And then every person who fills out the survey every month gets entered into a giveaway. But this giveaway is a little bit different in that it's not that I'm going to give you a gift card per se, but I am going to reach out to you so you can select the charity of your choice so that we can pay this forward. I think that there are so many people I mean, if you have listened to the season so far, then you know that I've learned to compare myself, you know, that's what I did growing up, it was always you're not as good as so and so you know, so and so plays piano better than you they play, they get better grades than you.

Judy Tsuei 35:50

So I've continually compared up but I forget that we are all so lucky and privileged. If you're listening to this podcast right now, you probably have so many blessings in your life. And there are plenty of other people who are going through so much of a harder time, especially with the current state of the world, the pandemic, all of that. And so it's helpful to remember and be reminded of what we do have, and that we have much more abundance and we are all such generous beings and generous souls. So to create more and more opportunities for us to give back, which really, for me, fills me up and fills my cup. So I'll see you on Friday for our final mindfulness practice of season one. Have a beautiful day.

Judy Tsuei 36:34

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you liked what you heard and know someone in your life who might also benefit from hearing this episode, please feel free to share it with them. Also, if you'd like to support our show, you can make a one-time donation fcksavingface.com. Or, you can make a recurring donation at patreon.com/fcksavingface. That's “fck” without the “u.” Subscribe today to stay tuned for all future episodes.