EPISODE 50: TRULY BRIDGING EAST + WEST MEDICINE WITH ERIN WILKINS

Sep 24

MEET ERIN WILKINS

Erin Wilkins is an Asian American herbalist, Japanese style acupuncturist. Her work is rooted in TCM and Japanese energetic medicine—tapping into her own ancestral healing traditions to empower others to restore health and prevent illness. A seasoned educator, her classes include seasonal wellness, self care workshops, Asian American herbalism and folk traditions. Erin is the owner of Herb Folk, an Asian American herb shop and clinic in Petaluma, CA. She is a member of the Sonoma County JACL and a proud Yonsi.

Visit her website: HerbFolkShop.com

Takeaways

Erin Wilkins, founder of Herb Folk Medicine, joins us in this episode where she talks about how she learned to tap into her own ancestral healing traditions in order to really empower others to restore their health and prevent illness. She describes how she learned to truly embrace her eastern roots in order to approach her profession in a new way, where she shows up more authentically personally and professional. and She’s also a mother, which always lends to amazing insights on how to heal our own stories as we parent those who come after us. We also had a really wonderful discussion about code switching and how this tendency can make up a person’s character. Rather than walk around living as the perception other people have of you, how can you embrace all of who you truly are?

We also cover:

“I always say that it’s so important, like the words that we’re using to tell the stories both to ourselves and to each other, like the stories that we tell ourselves, that’s our mindset that creates our truths. And I’ve loved learning that a belief is just a thought you keep thinking. So shifting that story that we’re telling ourselves can totally change our lives.”

— Judy Tsuei

Transcript

Judy Tsuei 0:00

Today it's gonna be a really interesting conversation because as I mentioned in Monday's episode, a traditional Chinese medicine is super close to my heart. I love the blend of spirituality and science behind it.

Judy Tsuei 0:11

Today I interview Erin Wilkins. She's an Asian American herbalist and Japanese style acupuncturist. Her work is rooted in traditional Chinese medicine and Japanese energetic medicine.

Judy Tsuei 0:22

You'll hear during the interview how she learned how to tap into her own ancestral healing traditions in order to really empower others to restore their health and prevent illness. She's a seasoned educator and her classes include seasonal wellness, self care workshops, Asian American herbalism, and folk traditions. She's also the owner of Herb Folk, an Asian American herbs shop and clinic in Petaluma, California. You can find her on Instagram at herbfolkmedicine.

Judy Tsuei 0:49

What I think is really interesting about this interview as well is that we talk about code switching, we talk about how she mentioned to me when I first got to know her before this interview and starting to prep for it that she said that she wasn't calligraphy Asian, she was hood Asian, and that there's so much of this that I didn't have the vocabulary for, but I definitely participated in.

Judy Tsuei 1:10

So a very good friend of mine is Mexican American. And the last time that she came out to visit me, we had this conversation about how the ways that she and I are together are different than the ways that I am with some of my other friends here in North County, San Diego. And it's not for their lack of understanding or that they wouldn't accept me. But there's definitely a certain amount of urbanism that comes through.

Judy Tsuei 1:34

And then just understanding that there are these nuanced bits that make up your character when you're part of a marginalized conversation and community. And that you have to figure out how to navigate that how to do that primal thing of learning how to fit in into a community so that you won't be ostracized so that you'll have your you know, basic needs met your survival needs met. Erin is also a mom and you'll hear about that as well. So I hope that you get a lot out of this interview as much as I did from connecting with her.

Judy Tsuei 2:09

Welcome to the fuck saving face podcast. I'm your host Judy sway and together we'll explore mental and emotional health for Asian Americans, especially breaking through any taboo topics. Like may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Let's make your story beautiful today.

Judy Tsuei 2:25

Okay, welcome back to the fuck saving face podcast. I'm very, very excited to have Erin Wilkins here. She is an Asian American herbalist and the founder of herb folk medicine and herbs shopping clinic in Northern California. Erin and I got on a call before this podcast interview. And then we just immediately just were like going into it and diving in. And one of the things that she said during the interview was that, you know, I wasn't calligraphy Asian, I was hood Asian.

Judy Tsuei 2:53

And I loved that so much. I think that there's just such this idea of how we are perceived out in the world and how we actually are. And I'm really excited because you know, I have a passionate place in my heart for Chinese medicine, and for traditional Chinese medicine because I love the idea in learning about it, that it's really rooted in spirituality and all of these ideas that like definitely bringing in millennia of science, but also having that element of understanding that connection between the mind the body and the Spirit. And I think that's so lovely.

Judy Tsuei 3:24

My aunt was an acupuncturist, but she did it the scary way where she would run out for us with needles to put in the scalp that I didn't really love. And then I did an acupuncturist, you know, and I learned in that experience and then meeting all of his other herbalist friends how powerful you know herbal ism is and how much the practice of treating the patient changes with the practitioner. So the practitioner becomes part of the regimen and how unique that relationship is.

Judy Tsuei 3:53

So I love all of that. But I'm going to turn it over to you, Erin, for you to talk a little bit about your story and how you identify as an Asian American.

Erin Wilkins 4:01

Hi, Judy, thank you so much for having me on your podcast today. I am just feeling so lifted and joyful to be here with you. When we had a call recently, like the connection. It just felt so immediate. And we just started riffing immediately. So I'm excited for this conversation today.

Judy Tsuei 4:18

Yeah, yes. Yeah. So tell me about you know, you mentioned that you are half Asian and half. What was the other half?

Erin Wilkins 4:28

Yeah, so half Japanese, half Irish. So you know, growing up, I always identified as hapa. Now I tend to say more like Corfu or half remit. And so yeah, I was born and raised in South Sacramento, in a very big Japanese American family. And now I live in work in Petaluma, California, which is like North Bay, San Francisco Bay Area, sacred land of the coast. miwok and great century of people and my family has I lived in Sonoma County, where we're currently out for five generations, except for the generation and a half when the family was displaced due to Japanese internment, relocation.

Erin Wilkins 5:11

And so in returning to this place, specifically, and having the privilege to build a business and to raise a family here, and specifically to have a shop that not only highlights but centers, the Asian American experience, is something that I'm really proud of, is a source of pride for our whole family. It's so beautiful. Can you tell me more about your business and your practice and this practice of Eastern medicine and how you apply that? Sure, yeah, so.

Erin Wilkins 5:42

So it's interesting is that even though I'm an Asian American woman, practicing traditional Asian medicine, some would say like an ancestral medicine, until recently, I had really compartmentalized my professional in my personal life, right, feeling safe to present as Asian one way at home, and then a different way at work. And what I realized was, I wasn't presenting as Asian at work, I was hiding behind the medicine, I wasn't sharing my personal story, or really my personal connection to the medicine.

Erin Wilkins 6:13

And that was what it was right, I was still practiced for 10 years like that, and had a thriving practice. But once I really had this integration, this kind of realization, and then this emergence of really becoming more true to myself, both professionally and personally, that really shifted the way I work, it shifted the clients and the patients coming to me, and just how I felt in my day to day, and it just felt more free. Hmm.

Judy Tsuei 6:43

I mean, one of the things that you and I spoke about before that was towards the end of our original conversation, and I feel like this happens a lot for the things that are really important to us, we kind of hide to the very back until at the very end, in fact, my book coach, I think she said that that is like how there's a term she said about being in therapy. And that's like, be, you know, something out the door question, I'm gonna have to like, figure out what she said.

Judy Tsuei 7:05

But it's like you asked that big question right at the end of your therapy session, and then the therapist is like, well, we're gonna spend the whole time talking about this. So you know, what you were just referencing right now is that code switching that happens and how it happens. So, you know, intuitively, I feel like for so many of us, because we're programmed to survive, to be part of a community to, you know, get our needs met, however, that's going to look, and this is not unique to Asian Americans, obviously, there's so many different populations that like have incredible experiences where they've had to navigate between these worlds.

Judy Tsuei 7:40

So I'd love for you to speak about like, what your awareness is you came to when you realize that you were compartmentalizing this identity and what you did about it.

Erin Wilkins 7:49

Yeah, what I realized was, is that I was carrying a lot of shame around the code switching growing up in a really diverse area with a lot of family and Asian community around me, I grew up talking a certain way, listening to a certain type of music, you know, and those things are still who I am at my core.

Erin Wilkins 8:10

But when I was 14, tender age, right before High School, our family moved back to Sonoma County into predominantly white community. And so I was really quick to change the way I spoke music, right, just so much about me in order to blend in to fit in. And I realized that rather than holding shame around that part of my healing was to kind of embrace and accept that 14 year old girl and look at her as a survivor and somebody who do what she needed to do to feel safe at that time. And in honoring that, let it go.

Erin Wilkins 9:08

And so now that I am more confident in my work, personally, almost 40 have children, it just feels really good to get to a place where I feel like I can just be who I am and have to put on any friends.

Judy Tsuei 9:25

How did you do that? How did you move from that realization to starting to embrace that? I think that that's something I was actually just talking to a mindset coach who I was working with about, like, how do you get to that point where you start really embracing who it is that you are and celebrating that without guilt or shame.

Judy Tsuei 9:41

I think that in the Asian culture, you are not supposed to celebrate those elements of yourself. You're supposed to be very, very humble. But one of my friends said to me recently, we were on a trip in Mexico and he was like, I can't wait for that moment. When you start to see yourself the way that everybody else sees you. It is going to be a great moment and like.

Judy Tsuei 10:00

So, how did you go from? Yeah, like that journey, because I think a lot of the other guests that I've interviewed to also have this shared similar experience, as I did, of growing up in a predominantly white community, and feeling very, very far from what they presented as their normal lives. And so we just do whatever we could to, like, pretend we were even close. And it caused so much stress and so much like, you know, even more debt, I would say, to try to pretend. So yeah, how was that for you? to do it?

Erin Wilkins 11:03

You know, it was really an A moment of intense crisis, it was the beginning of quarantine, I found myself at home with my two young children having to shut down my acupuncture practice. And I had this moment of like, Who am I, an ego death of sorts, right. So all the pretenses had to kind of fall away. And it was also during all of the racial justice uprisings after the murder of Brenda Taylor and George Floyd.

Erin Wilkins 11:32

And it made me kind of just take a moment, I actually had a moment to remember who I was, and who I've always been about, and be more mindful about how I present myself in the world and how I frame who I am. And what I do. quick example is for so long identified as an East West herbalist, because I thought that was something that kind of common sense, people could kind of get it who East West, we know what that is. But when I really dug in, I don't feel that paradigm.

Erin Wilkins 12:01

I don't, I'm not an East West person, I identify as an Asian American person. And I realized that that's my work. Also, my work is Asian American herbal ism, and on so many levels, because of my identity, because I've learned this traditional Asian medicine here in America, from teachers in America, I learned it in English, there's just so many layers to that. And so that shifting language, actually is what started this cascade of emergence in so many other areas of my life.

Judy Tsuei 12:32

I love that I think that I always say that it's so important, like the words that we're using to tell the stories both to ourselves and to each other, like the stories that we tell ourselves, that's our mindset that creates our truths. And I've loved learning that a belief is just a thought you keep thinking. So like shifting that story that we're telling ourselves can totally change our lives. And then what language we're using to tell other stories. And even you know, as I'm doing this podcast, I'm still having conversations with people where I'm catching myself, you know, saying like the joke to try to make it easy and not uncomfortable.

Judy Tsuei 13:04

And that code switching that you were talking about, I realized that with certain friends, one of my friends in particular, who's like Mexican American, when she comes to visit with me, I'm a totally different person with her than I am anybody else in my life, and I feel so much more at home. And again, it's not like, like you said, you use the word hood. I don't want to say this in like a derogatory way, like about being ghetto, quote, unquote, or whatnot.

Judy Tsuei 13:27

But there is some sort of like realness and understanding that if you are perceived as other or marginalized population, you've likely had to go through some shit, like how to deal with some racist shit, like, you know, just like, also swallow a lot, not like, you know, decide when and where you're going to speak up and rise up. And so I think all of that creates, you know, feelings of resentment, frustration, anger, almost like a righteousness to being able to be a certain way that other people can't be. So like, people can't code switch into this, because you don't belong there. You haven't gone through that.

Judy Tsuei 14:00

And it's just been such an interesting, like you said, like, even just the distinction between east west and Asian and American, like, how do you really identify what's really true for you? And once you made that switch? What results Did you see with your practice? I know that one of the things you talked about when we got on the phone, too, was like about health equity. And like because of the region that you live in, predominantly, a lot of the clients that you would see are white. So how did that shift and transform some of that, if it did?

Erin Wilkins 14:25

Well, and to speak on what you were just sharing, I thought that was so powerful, how, with code switching under the kind of foundation about some of the underlying dynamic is of oppression, right? It's interesting when we're then speaking freely with people who we resonate with, and we can just tell I have had similar experience. It's almost as if not just feeling free. It's almost like a joy, able to express oneself and rightly, in our fullness. Yeah. And so when I started kind of making more like jokes that were true to me

Erin Wilkins 15:00

You know, like, making hip hop references, things that I like, kept really close to my heart and didn't share in public, like on social media, things like that, what I noticed was I started getting a lot of messages from other Asian folks, not just in the urban world, just other Asians in different walks of life, like, Hey, I'm really feeling you. Like, I also like hip hop and like it, you know, like things that and then I look at their feet, and it would be like, very like a steer, and he would never get to me, it was like, oh, that what I'm doing other people are also in the process of doing. And that I think, has also made me feel more brave about continuing to just keep it real.

Judy Tsuei 15:44

Yeah, and I love that because anybody who takes the time to reach out to you, I had someone tell me one time, like for every person who actually reaches out to you, and gives you that feedback, or that thought, there's so many other people who feel the same way. And they're just not saying anything, you know, not taking that time. And that was really helpful, because it was like, Oh, this is a sample size of like one or you know, 510, but they're representing a huge voice that needs to be heard and needs to be spoken about.

Judy Tsuei 16:08

And I think that what you're also speaking to is redefining what it means to be Asian in America today, over the last year or two, the terms of like co opting someone else's, you know, culture or capitalizing on it, benefiting from that, commercializing it like all of that stuff, I think is just coming more to the forefront. And so instead of being left behind, in that, how can we really start to stand up and own it and embrace it in ways that are resonant with us that benefit the like origin culture that also, you know, let all of that get celebrated in a way that's really honoring.

Judy Tsuei 16:41

And so in the very beginning, when you mentioned the land that you're on, I loved hearing that I love like, you know, honoring like where we are and the places and the people who came before us to help create that that can get lost so easily as we go about in our day to day lives. One of the questions that I'd love to ask you about is for anybody who's like, new to acupuncture, doesn't know anything about it, or doesn't know anything about like herbal ism, what are some of the core tenants or like beliefs and philosophies that you work with that you would love to share?

Erin Wilkins 17:12

Something that I love to talk about something I feel like should be more common knowledge about the state, herbal medicine is that herbal ism, as well as acupuncture. It's a complex, sophisticated network of healing systems and medicine, right and its use and its history and our instinctual understanding of it predates written history, talk a lot about that in my classes, I feel it's really important to share a context and history when teaching about traditional medicine, herbal ism and acupuncture, it predates the scientific method. at the most basic level, we know that it works not because of any one randomized controlled experiment, but because this medicine is written in our bones, in our blood.

Judy Tsuei 18:01

That's so so beautiful, I think I remember when I was getting treatment, just learning that, you know, this type of medicine treats you as a universe in and of yourself. And that it's not just like one little part that it's trying to address. But you are this whole ecosystem. So just similar to the world that we live in with the mountains and the trees, and the rivers and all of that all of that exists within you.

Judy Tsuei 18:25

And they're all interrelated, just like everything is interrelated in nature. So it was such a beautiful like poetic medicine, even the way that you describe it right now is so poetic. And I think, you know, even just the brief readings that I've done just about how your emotions play into it, like the sense of love or your heart, or you know, your purpose, your destiny, like all of that. And to bring it all together, I think is so amazing, because that is not what I learned when I was again, growing up with my aunt, who would boil the Chinese medicine that smells so bad.

Judy Tsuei 19:23

So when it comes to you know, the kind of work that you do to what are some of the common ailments and you know, things that people come seek you for? And what are some of the surprising things that people don't know, you know, maybe herbal ism can address or acupuncture?

Erin Wilkins 19:39

Yeah, well, that's a good one. Oftentimes, people will come to me for acupuncture for pain. Because especially people who haven't had a lot of experience with it, or it's their first time, it takes something significant. To ask for needles to be poked into your body. You know, it's not always our first thinks.

Erin Wilkins 20:04

But from physical pain, there is always mental, emotional, spiritual pain as well. If not, primarily, that is usually the root. And so the work I do is more and more, really speaking to spirit. Energy, and then what's going on with the physical body falls into place.

Judy Tsuei 20:29

Oh, that's so beautiful. So you had mentioned before that you combine the east and the west, how does the West come into play?

Erin Wilkins 20:37

Yeah, so going to school for acupuncture and herbalism I went to grad school. And so even in that program, it was acupuncture and integrative medicine. So the western part is integrated into my learning. However, as a practitioner, I really do center the eastern energetics.

Erin Wilkins 20:58

I don't read labs anymore, I don't try and be you know, like 50%, nurse 50%, acupuncturist I've really as I've gained confidence in my skill set just really allowed myself to lean into the eastern energetics as the root and foundation. However, I'm also very passionate about applying these energetics to herbs that are growing in our bio region, right things that can be sourced locally, potentially even in one's own backyard. I think that speaks a lot to accessibility.

Erin Wilkins 21:33

And the way this medicine medicine was always practiced, where, you know, when TCM and classical Chinese medicine, Japanese energetic medicine was coming up there, we weren't living in a global society, yet people could only use what they had access to. And so for me now, that's where the western element comes into play, is how to apply the eastern energetics to say things like lemon balm, or ro, or mint Canna meal. But that's just a part of the picture.

Judy Tsuei 22:01

Yeah, it's that's so wonderful. And I think that in a future interview that I'm doing, we'll be talking about, like sustainability, especially like sustainability for the planet, when it comes to fashion and the fast fashion and all that kind of stuff that we're going through now. But one of the things that I think was interesting, like way back one that I remember, learning is like when you travel, try to eat like yogurt from like the local region, because like the probiotics or like the honey from the local region, because it helps your system acclimate by, you know, taking in the subtle elements of what's already produced in that region, which was just so helpful to think about, like,

Judy Tsuei 22:35

Oh, yeah, that's a wonderful way to stay connected to the land and to, you know, I feel like always growing up, I learned that when you travel to other places, you want to honor like the culture and the civilization that's there. And what I noticed too, and one of my friends owns a resort in the Philippines. And she had observed through her like, decade and a half of living there and running this business, that it's usually the western, like American men who come in with this egotistical idea of like, demanding, like, I need my needs, that I need this, you know, I need that.

Judy Tsuei 23:09

And it makes it very difficult on everybody else, who's learning how to survive in a different way, and have a lifestyle in a different way. Like, yes, they're there as hospitality but at the same time, there's so much more of that collective kind of understanding. And so I love anything, like the work that you're doing, and, and anything that just really reminds us of how we can practice a little bit more humility. And, you know, of, Oh, we are benefiting from this.

Judy Tsuei 23:34

And I think this was also when I lived in Hawaii too. Just seeing how much tourism came through, and how little regard there was to the land and how much you know, there's so many sacred places and just so many ways that we could be more mindful even like using like reef safe sunblock, for example, like, let's not kill the water that we're coming to enjoy. So I don't think that these are some things that we're necessarily taught if you're growing up with immigrant parents, like you mentioned with your family who had to be displaced, you know, there's trauma there.

Judy Tsuei 24:02

There's trauma with a big T and a trauma with a little T and then that scarcity mindset and the survivalist mindset, so all of that makes it really hard. How did you get to the point where, you know, like, you're doing this work, what was the thing that drew you most to this work that you're doing now and being of service in this way?

Erin Wilkins 24:25

So riff on what you're saying is what came to mind about you know, accessibility and really safeguarding the earth is that thing like instant gratification rolls the world like herbal ism is a real teacher in that regard, where there's no fast medicine. And herbal ism teaches us consistency teaches us grace teaches us the subtlety of our healing. So I had to say something

Judy Tsuei 24:56

I love that they do. Yeah, I think that was the Quiet back of my head is like this medicine is not fast medicine, this is like slow fashion is like a really great way to honor what we want to buy and purchase and invest in and the people who are creating it, the land that's producing the materials for it. And just like that, like herbal ism is a wonderful way to remind us of like, let's slow it down. Let's remember how powerful healing can be and how lasting healing can be. When we take like the slower steps to make sure that it's coming from a fundamental place of change, instead of the superficial, I just don't want to hurt anymore, just like make it stop hurting. But instead of addressing like, wait, but what caused the hurt in the first place? So going back to your question of how you got into it, but what spoke to you about it?

Erin Wilkins 25:42

Yeah, you know, funny and this is, this really speaks to I think a lot of first gen and Asian American experiences. I in undergrad was pre law. But underlying idea of I had three options, law, engineering, or medicine. And so I was working as a paralegal preparing for law school. And I had all of these health issues coming up, right? physical and emotional, which were really big red flags at 20 years old, have like, this is not your path, you are not well, you're going to break until you figure it out. And so I just started trying different things, yoga, Pilates, meditation, breathwork. It wasn't until I was gifted an acupuncture session.

Judy Tsuei 26:30

Acupuncture can be pricey.

Erin Wilkins 26:32

I gifted an acupuncture session, and it changed my life until I could have never guessed what it would feel like right. And maybe you had had similar experiences when you have a good healing session of just said embodiment of profound shift. And even at that point, I think because in our in the mainstream culture, acupuncture is exotic sized in a way that makes me very uncomfortable. Even at that point, I was still skeptical of going into acupuncture. I was like, I'm not that kind of Asian. You know, again, that like, I'm

Erin Wilkins 27:06

I'm not calligraphy Asian. I'm put Asian like, what, what, but I found myself in acupuncture school within three months. And yeah, I love it. I love the needles, and I love the herbs.

Judy Tsuei 27:20

I love what you're speaking about. Because that sense of harmony that comes out of a healing session is unlike anything else. It feels almost like you're like floating around like in that sense of wholeness. And now that you're putting words to it, I'm realizing like I never have that sense when I go to Western medicine that I walk out feeling like completely hold like a whole person and not to diss Western medicine. I definitely think that it hasn't placed. But I think that there is that sense of bringing everything into union in that way similar to other practices like yoga and whatnot.

Judy Tsuei 27:52

Like, when you have a really good yoga class, you walk out of that class, like floating on air, just feeling like oh my gosh, every part of me just was addressed. And I think when you were talking about the price Enos of the acupuncture I know that for a lot of different clinics and practitioners, there's community acupuncture, because the fact that the pressure points are in your feet, and you can address them with like your extremities, there are definitely ways that you could access this care in a way that is in your budget, which is also something else that I have loved.

Judy Tsuei 28:18

And just the way that you talk about it. Like, please, everyone who's listening to this, let your health be an indicator of potentially something that may have gone awry, because I think that we learn to shove it real far deep, and shove it real far back, like oh, there's just something wrong with me. There's something wrong with the path that I'm pursuing or the choices that I'm making, just like me, I can't handle it or whatever.

Judy Tsuei 28:39

So everything that you're saying is such a good reminder, we had done an interview with a woman who does Human Design, and she also suffered extreme health challenges from pursuing a career that wasn't aligned with her. And to the point that she had to take a sabbatical because she was just completely fatigued from it. So I liked the understanding. And I remember when I I think I read this or heard it. It was Lonny Jarrett's like book and he was talking about that each one of us is born with a destiny, but we're also born with freewill.

Judy Tsuei 29:08

So the universe will not make you live out your destiny because of your free will. But it sure as heck will tell you what that destiny is. And first, it will appear as like internal physical symptomology. Like I'm starting to feel under the weather, I'm starting to get consistent chronic conditions like that pain is starting to hurt. And if you still don't pay attention, and you don't take heed that it will start showing up as external life events to get you to pay attention to slow down. And just that way that it was described was so wonderful and beautiful.

Judy Tsuei 29:40

And for anybody who's listening, please feel free to let me know if that's ever happened to you where all of a sudden there's some life event you're like, Oh, great, now I have to stop and pay attention. But I loved hearing that. So as you're getting ready to close this interview, I'm very curious about this idea of you know, along the lines of fck saving face and really breaking through taboo topics and transforming the way that we approach, shame and guilt. What is one area that you wish that people would know about to like rewrite a story around or highlight or eliminate?

Erin Wilkins 30:12

What was it something that I talked about often continuation of maybe one of the first things that we talked about of the language and how we use language to define us and how, oftentimes in life, we start walking around with labels, ideas of ourselves that have been given to us. Maybe things that we give to ourselves, and we start walking around, like, that's the truth. That's it. So how can we create time? How can one create time in their life space in their life? to question those things to question the labels that we put on the masks that we've put on, and potentially let them go.

Judy Tsuei 31:02

I love that. That's so wonderful. I think that this is why every spiritual tradition encourages like mindfulness, or just taking some time, and that mindfulness can look like being outside and going for a walk and just no distractions and being present with your breath. But I think that what you're saying, like giving ourselves that space and that room to reflect because I think so often, we just become habitual eyes to our patterns, our ways of thinking or ways of being.

Judy Tsuei 31:26

So you know, one of my friends who grew up in a family of therapists said, just do the opposite of what you would normally do. Like, if you could just take a moment and try that, then see what happens. And that sense of like curiosity around the exploration of like, Yeah, what would happen if I just like, made a little shift? Like what would happen? Thank you so much for your time and your energy today, and you're sharing. It's been wonderful and so poetic and beautiful. I'm curious if people want to follow up with you. Where can they find you?

Erin Wilkins 31:57

Yes, I had such a great time today, Judy. Thank you for having me. Yes, I have a brick and mortar shop downtown Petaluma. To learn more of the website is herbfolkshop[dot]com. I'm on Instagram at herbfolkmedicine. And yeah, I have ongoing classes, clinics, I'm about to start my acupuncture practice up again. So come through,

Judy Tsuei 32:21

Yay. Thank you. And all that region is so beautiful to so it's like a wonderful, take a day trip, go like, go on a staycation. Thank you.

Erin Wilkins 32:32

Awesome. Thank you so much, Judy.

Wilder 32:35

Please support my mom's podcast has a bad word in it. But I think you'll know where to find that.

Judy Tsuei 32:43

As always, thank you so much for listening, I really appreciate the time that you take to be present here with me to listen to these experts share their insights and wisdom. And then to share it with a friend. I have had a lot of feedback that people are obsessed with the content that I've been producing, because it feels a little bit like you're reading my journal, or you're sitting having a conversation with me.

Judy Tsuei 33:05

And that is genuinely how i do want it to feel that you know, with transparency and authenticity, that we're pulling back the veil, that we don't have to live in guilt and shame. And instead, we can normalize a lot of things that have been very taboo. And instead learn how to truly Connect, truly bridge these worlds to if you are one of those people whose code switching better understand what it is that you're doing.

Judy Tsuei 33:27

Is that how you want to be? Do we want to change the need that we find that people have to do this? I hope these episodes bring a bit of light and illuminate different aspects of people's stories for you that they help offer a bit of healing or understanding to affirm that you're not alone in this world. And any type of support that you want to share is so so helpful and absolutely meaningful to me.

Judy Tsuei 33:52

If you want to rate and review the podcast if you want to share it with a friend if you want to make a donation. However that looks for you. I am grateful that you are here. Thank you for being part of this community.

Judy Tsuei 34:04

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you liked what you heard and know someone in your life who might also benefit from hearing this episode, please feel free to share it with them. Also, if you'd like to support our show, you can make a one time donation at Fox saving face calm or you can make a recurring donation@patreon.com forward slash fuck saving face. That's fuck without the you subscribe today to stay tuned for all future episodes.