EPISODE 29: HOW TO ADVOCATE FOR YOUR HEALTH WITH MARY DEE
MEET MARY DEE
Known as “The Joy Catalyst” Mary Dee is an International Speaker, Best Selling Author and trusted Business Advisor. She's been in the digital space for over 20 years helping impact driven businesses create a winning strategy with the right tech, teams and mindset. She’s built multiple start-ups from an idea into multi-million dollar enterprises and she’s a world class problem solver.
Diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer at only 40 years old, Mary healed from Breast Cancer holistically and she helps those on their own journey with cancer move mountains. She’s the Chair of the Board for thebreasties.org, a non-profit community that supports young women affected by breast cancer with resources, encouragement and connection.
For more great stories, inspiration and magic mindset moments, head over to www.marydee.com or join her across any social platform @themarydee.
Takeaways
According to my interview with therapist Sharon Kwon, the biggest emotions Asian Americans deal with is guilt and shame — and can this play into your medical care, as well? Today, you’ll meet Mary Dee, who discovered she had stage 2 breast cancer and wanted to treat it holistically. But, in order to understand something was wrong, she really needed to know herself and her body — and then, she needed to advocate for her care when she challenged doctors realizing that nobody looked like her, not from an age standpoint or from an ethnicity standpoint. They were selling her traditional courses of treatment, and she wanted statistics about survival rates for the drugs they were offering.
One of my favorite quotes from the interview:
You know, Asian brothers and sisters walked into the doctor's office and they're feeling like they're being a little slighted. We can say, no, no, this is your opportunity to actually take a stand for yourself because this isn't, it missing might be deeper than just your one situation. There could be something systemic here and we want to tackle that. And we only do that when we speak up. And when we create courage and some bravery, even though it feels a little scary, we do it anyway. And we lean in and we say, no, doctor, I actually need you to answer some questions for me and help me get this information so that I can make a good decision. I want to trust you. And I believe you're good at what you do, but I, I'm not doing my job and I'm not doing right by me. If I don't ask a few questions. And if you need some of those questions, I guarantee you there's, you know, depending on whatever you're going through, find your community and someone there has probably already made a list of great questions for you to ask.
She also shares how her Thai heritage played into her ability to challenge authority, the racist comments she experienced growing up, and why it’s so essential to find joy, whatever you’re going through. You’ll hear she fought guilt and shame when her successful business faced a lawsuit, and how she worked to find joy anyway.
We also talk about:
Anita Moorjani’s book, Dying to Be Me
Emily Nagoski’s book, Come As You Are
Transcript
I want to fully acknowledge that if you were raised in a traditional Asian household, then you probably didn't really talk about your body, much less sensuality, sexuality, touching yourself, any of those things. So, you know, I hope that in the previous episodes, like the one that we did with where we talk about sexual somatic healing, and then this upcoming episode for today where we're interviewing Mary Dee who's the chair of thebreasties.org that we encourage a more open dialogue about the body, about how to advocate for health.
I know that I talk a lot about how F*ck Saving Face is about mental and emotional health, but I fully advocate for physical health as well. And I think, you know, it's the whole complete. Picture of who we are. So Mary Dee is known as the joy catalyst. She's an international speaker, a bestselling author, and a really trusted business advisor.
She's been in the digital space for over 20 years, helping businesses create the right strategy. And you'll hear in our interview today as well about how she experienced the ups and downs of building multiple startups, of having multi-million dollar enterprises, and then having them fail or having things happen.
She was diagnosed with stage two breast cancer at 40 years old. And then she healed holistically and she wants to help others on their journey with cancer. So she became the chair of the board of the breasties.org. It's a nonprofit community that supports young women affected by breast cancer, with resources, encouragement, and connection.
And you'll hear today how she talks very openly and honestly about her Asian American experience as well. Give the episode a listen, and then I'll see you at the end.
Welcome to the F*ck Saving Face podcast. I'm your host, Judy Tsuei, and together we'll explore mental and emotional health for Asian Americans, especially breaking through any taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Let's make your story beautiful today. Welcome back to the F*ck Saving Face podcast, where we explore all topics that are taboo and really advocate for what it means to be Asian in America.
Today, as this episode airs, there's been a lot of different cultural discourse and dialogue around hate crimes against Asians. And I recently posted something that said, you know, like it's not necessarily helpful for friends to send links to articles. And, you know, because we know what's happening or even if we are choosing to take in our news differently, I think that we just have the lived experience.
And so instead, really checking into how one another feels and then how to advocate. For yourself and for others. And that's why I'm so excited to bring on Mary Dee. She's known as the joy catalyst and she's an international speaker, a best-selling author, and definitely a trusted business advisor. She's been in the digital space for over 20 years, helping to impact businesses and creating a winning strategy with the right tech teams and mindset.
So that's a good, like bio, but we're going to get, we're going to dive into the heart of what it is that I want to bring her on because in addition to business and entrepreneurial-ism, Mary has a personal experience with surviving breast cancer and just about healthcare advocacy in general. So when she, and I first connected, I had heard this idea that people of color or marginalized populations don't necessarily access the same kind of care, and then don't necessarily get the same kind of attention that other ethnicities or cultures might get. So I'm going to turn it over to Mary really quick, just to share in your own words, you know who you are and what lights you up now.
And then we'll dive into some of these heavier topics. Love it love it. So I am the joy catalyst, as you said, and I'm playing that because I help people take their pain and turn it into purpose. And it's what I'm here on earth to do is to help people do that in both their business life, as well as their personal life.
And of course, as you alluded to that, uh, near and dear to my heart, because I did undergo breast cancer. I got it at the same time that I was going through a multi-million dollar lawsuit and lost my dog. So I was living out an old country song, uh, in a, in a very real, real way, uh, that, and I will say that that, that pain was very real in that time.
And being able to still wake up and. I enjoy to seek purpose and reset myself was a huge piece of that journey. And the most important part of that is the advocacy that I did have to do for myself while I was going through breast cancer, because I actually made a choice. And the choice I made was. To do it in a more holistic way.
I didn't buy into the fear. I didn't buy into the game of big pharma, chemotherapy, radiation, pharma, drugs that they want to put you on. And I'm not poo-pooing medicine because. You know what it's got its place for sure. And it has helped a lot of people, but the moment that I'd have to walk into my doctor's office and wonder if they're actually having my best interest in mind, or if they're seeing dollar signs, that's when there is a problem.
So I'd say that's when it, when it first starts. And one of the things that I've learned through the process, Uh, I've, I've been able to come out of this beautifully. I sit as the chair of the board for thebreasties.org. It's a wonderful nonprofit that serves young women with breast cancer and reproductive cancers.
And one of the things is walking into the doctor's office. And number one, nobody looked like me. They didn't look like me from the standpoint of my age. Number one. And the number two, I didn't see one other person of color in the room. And so granted to be fair, I was in Texas, but still Fort worth and Dallas are pretty progressive.
So again, it's just one of those things where you look around and you're like, ah, okay, give me some of these numbers. And I think what stunned me the most is an asking the oncologist to verify the number she'd given me. Cause she's giving me statistics about survival and statistics about taking this drug and doing this thing.
I'm asking her, can you tell me about women like me? Mm women who are Asian. How about Asian American? How about women under 45? Like these are good questions to ask because surely there are people with a similar diagnosis, even though there's many kinds of breast cancer, there's still some general pockets of, of categories that they put it in.
And the fact that she couldn't come back to me with anything, except for this, uh, study from like back in the 1920s in Europe of a hundred women. That was defeating. It was really defeating because somebody got this data and someone is keeping track, but nobody is sharing. So this is the part where I say we have to take a stand for ourselves and not always listen to the noise that's coming at us, but rather say, Hey, let me question this status quo because people are walking in here fearful for their life, right.
Because they're faced with something life-threatening. And they don't know what to do next. They're relying on this doctor's expertise, but who knows our body better than we do. How many times be have you gotten up and gone? Oh, I feel this thing in my body or I feel a little sore here or, Oh, I'm getting headaches today.
I don't normally get headaches. What is your normal? So it's being able to lean into who you are and also trusting yourself and your intuition. And coupling that with the data, you do get to make some decisions around, okay. What is right for me versus what has maybe been right for all these other people before me who are not like me at all?
So I think, you know, I, I feel blessed for my Asian heritage because I also feel like we've done a good job of healing from a holistic level, just naturally, whether that's because. Back what was passed down or because there is something beautiful also about Eastern medicine and Eastern philosophy that really tackle the core of things, which is sometimes is our mindset and it's the heart of things.
And it's how we are letting feelings travel through our body or not. And so I think for those reasons, like, I am definitely here to say, When you are faced with any kind of fear based decision. And I call it fear based because most people are scared of dying. I can tell you that at 40 years old, I was not, I wasn't ready to die yet.
I was like, wait already. Like not yet. We have more, we have more things to do and more things to career here. And this is that time where it can be. Really easy to open that door and let that fear rush in, but this is where we really have to take a stand for ourselves because no one's going to do that better than us.
Hmm. And rallying the people that we love around us to help us do that as well is just one more step. And that's why I think that the work that we've been doing in the breast cancer community has been great because we say, Hey, if you don't feel like you can go in and talk to your doctor, why don't you make a list of questions and send them in, in advance?
And you can talk to the person at the front desk and say, these are the questions that I would like them to answer for me. And that should be in your file so that the doctor can see and go up. They already have their questions. They're going to come in. I'm going to have to plan on spending 15, 20, 30, maybe an hour with this patient to actually give them the information that they want.
And so those, those are great places to start Judy and I can't speak enough to. The self-advocacy that needs to happen in that situation in the same way. But I will say this, that when I am watching some of these parents events and headlines that are going on and the hate that's happening out in our Asian community, what I do love are the stories of folks fighting back.
I love the stories of the attacker getting beat down and I'm just like, that's what I'm talking about. Hell yes. Like that all day long, my mom was a single mother raising me and we used to be in the backyard. I remember her and I used to have to stay alone a lot because she was working two jobs. And my mom was a really good about, she was like, okay. If, if you were to get approached and someone was trying to hurt you, you're going to. You're going to kick him in the balls. You're gonna, you know, you're going to punch him. And like, it would land on me as a kid. I was like, why did my mom be telling me this? I'm only like eight years old, who's going to attack an eight year old, but she knew some things.
She knew that there was, were things that existed in the world that I just wasn't my might. Little tiny child might have no clue about. So I really leaned into that and I laugh now because I'm like, well, my mom was really, she was setting me up for success. So it's funny to be having that conversation with her now and being like, mom, I need you to be very aware of when you're out in the world.
Oh yeah. There's so much. Why don't you share that? I would love to unpack first and foremost. How do you culturally identify as an Asian person? Like what's, what's your cultural background? Great question. So my mom is Thai. My dad was a European Caucasian. So you're raised by most of the time with, if you were to just ask me and I'm giving the quick answer, I tell people I'm Thai it's, it's, it's really, when I think about how I grew up and I think about.
What was instilled in me. It was definitely my high values. My feistiness definitely comes from, and my nurturing comes from my Thai side all day long. My peacemaker comes from my Thai side all day long. So for sure, I like it. I like it. I love the uniqueness of it. And I don't mind that I've been different compared to, um, the community I've grown up in my whole life.
Like I'm really embracing that and continue to embrace it. And it did you. Embrace that when you were younger, when I was younger, what do you think? No better duty. And, and this was the funny part about just kind of, I think my personality in general is I just didn't. I did, my parents didn't instill in me any kind of bias.
So I didn't know. Like I can tell you now looking back that, Oh my gosh. I was like one of three Asian kids in my entire elementary school. But at the time, it didn't occur to me that I was so Asian. And one of these, I remember these boys, they ended up in my mind, they were my friends. So that's the funny part.
Like I, in my mind, I could tell you they were my friends, but they were very much making fun of me. They were making little rhymes, Chinese, Japanese, and they were like, you know, pulling their, their hands on their eyes to make them slanty and. So they weren't being mean, but it, it didn't land on me because well, not Chinese or Japanese.
I mean, I'm not, so for me, I was like, well, no, I'm not. And then number two, I don't work pretty big. I. So there's all these things that, for me, I was self-aware enough to go that those don't actually apply to me. But even if they didn't like, this is, this is weird, like this that you get, like, where did you get this?
You know? And I don't remember them saying, Oh, do you know karate? And I was like, actually, yeah, I've taken karate classes. Do you want me to show you some moves? Like. I was just being who I was and not saying, Oh, this is, you know, because, because I do look different. That's why they're targeting me like that.
Didn't register for me at that age. And I'm a little bit grateful for that because I know the damage it can do. Right? Exactly. You let it get to you. And I was going to say, you know, similar to what you started off everything with about how you wanted to pursue a more holistic method of care. And then it, it is a lot about, you mentioned mindset as well and how much we buy into whatever it is that we believe like, um, Belief is a thought.
We keep thinking if we don't actually have beliefs that align to the attacks that other people are saying about us, and it's just gonna, you know, the chances are greater that it's going to bounce off of you. Cause it's not resonant. It's like, you know, someone calling you a piece of paper, well, like, no, I'm not, I'm a human.
So like, Not even going to register, then you reminded me of Anita Moorjani’s book, dying to be me. You know, she was terrified of getting cancer and because that fear was so present in her mind, she says that that was a huge reason that she thinks that she ended up getting cancer. But then in the beginning she wanted to pursue that holistic method of care.
So she went to, I believe she wants to India, you know, she did all these holistic methods and. So good coming back. But when she came back, all the people around her were like, you can't do that. You've got to go get Western care. You've got to, you know, and so she started again buying into these other beliefs and then those other beliefs caused her to feel really sick again.
So I know that you mentioned too, that, you know, your personality was a little bit different when you were younger. Cause you were just like, well, that doesn't apply. And I think that for a lot of us who were raised in traditional Asian households, there's just so much imprinting that. All of those things can greatly impact you.
So being able to advocate for your own care is something different. And one of the things that I wanted to ask you about too, was like, how did you first diagnose that you, you know, that there was a challenge or a health issue that you needed to get addressed? Because I think that, and I'll just speak to like, for my own experience that.
When I would learn about like self breast exam or whatnot, because it was such a shameful thing growing up, like you were not allowed to like masturbate or touch yourself or anything. It seemed like, well, I can't touch myself to like, have self care. Like, I don't know. You know? So I'm just curious as to how that unfolded for you.
Yes. So how it unfolded for me is in my diligence of wanting to just have a healthy wellbeing, right. Overall, like I'm always looking for like, how do I optimize who I am just as a, as a human, how do I take care of this body in a way that's going to serve me? Long-term one of those ways was in, in discovery.
And one thing I discovered was something called thermography. And thermography it's if you guys remember the old movie alien where the alien finds him via like heat signature. So it's in biographies, basically the same thing. It's like, it's a heat sensing camera, thermal camera. And it shows you in the body, like where are there warm spots?
Cause often warm spots. Tell us where the blood is flowing extra because it's usually trying to heal maybe a trauma or an inflammation. And so being under 40, the normal medical system here is going to tell you, you don't need a mammogram. Well, I can tell you that I work with a community of women who are in their twenties and thirties who have all had to go get a mammogram and an ultrasound because they've found something on their body and it ended up being cancer, but they were sometimes dismissed.
Oh, you're too young. And unfortunately cancer does not discriminate in my case, uh, was definitely at the point where I was obviously checking myself, feeling our body is so important. It's so important for a million billion reasons, but two of the big ones are to know how your body is, feels on a, as a baseline.
Right. Cause if I feel my breasts. Like, I've always been kind of boob malicious. And so they were like lumpy and I was like, Oh, am I going to know what if it was breast cancer lumpy anyway, but I'll tell you the day I bent over to do a stretch and found a string on my shirt and went to pinch it off and felt what was like a grape under my skin.
Yeah. That I knew it was wrong. It was all wrong. It did not feel like the rest of my very lumpy breasts. This was suddenly this very round little thing under the skin. And it gave me pause and that was enough to, of course, trigger the conversation with my doctor to say, I need to take a new step and it's to figure out what this is.
And if I pair it with my last thermal image, I can see that. That spot in general, under my breast was red. I sort of dismissed it as wires in my bra. And at that time I did stop wearing wires in my bra, but now I can see that my body was already painting a picture for me. It was letting me know like, Hey, there's something happening in this area.
And for me, that was a big piece of it is saying, okay, golf, let's go get this identified. But then also what to do what's right for me, because one of the other reasons I chose the care I did is. You know, when you have breast cancer, I only had it in my one right breast, but they give you some options.
Right? And so one of them is to just deal with that one breast, sometimes it's to deal with both. And so I chose to do both breasts because at the end of the day, my quality of life is greatly impacted. I don't want to have to go back to the doctor every six months and get a mammogram. Because that mammogram was also not great for me, if I'm getting it over and over, over again with the radiation.
So it's again, asking questions and understanding what is the impact of this decision. And for me, it was like do the double mastectomy. And then after that we're doing everything holistically. We're going to invest heavily in immunotherapies because they make us feel good. And they're great anyways, and we're going to let the body.
Do what it does best our body wants us to survive. And in my mind, my mindset was there. This was, this was going to happen. I was going to get through this. Hmm. So how did you know what that, because before we jumped on this interview, when you and I first connected, you mentioned that when it comes to healthcare, oftentimes people of color, you know, quote unquote minority populations may be dismissed.
You know, just you ask some pointed questions of, I want to see some stats of people who are in my age bracket, who are of my ethnicity, like things like that, but. Even beyond that, just advocating for your health in general, how would you even know that that is something that you need to do? Or what was some of the experiences you started diving into, um, your journey of understanding?
Like, wait, we're not getting the same quality of care from the same doctor or like, we're just not seen in the same way. Can you speak to that a bit more for sure. So one of the things that became really apparent to me and, and this is why I love the voice of community. Because you see things on a grander scale that as an individual, you don't always have access to.
Right? Unless I sit outside a doctor's office and count how many people might look like me, or I ask a survey of every person that's walking into that building. I don't have access to other people who are somewhat similar to me without asking the doctor. The doctor is really kind of the only person I can go to.
So when I find a community like the breasty two, I can identify with people who are like me, then suddenly we get together and start having conversations. And even with five people, you suddenly unravel all these patterns of what's being talked about, and what's not. And so as we become community pockets of whether it's demographics or age or whatever you call it, Then we start to really unravel and see what's going on in the system.
And then, then we can say to each other, huh? My, my friend over here, who's, you know, blonde hair, blue eyes. She's getting amazing care. They're going out of her way. So why is it that. We're not getting the same care, but I have maybe the same insurance. And so now we really start to break it down and we can see that there is a divide.
So it is an unfortunate accident actually, to be able to sit with your community and go, Oh wow. But very eyeopening because then the person who's getting super care. Is like feeling, Oh, wow. Like I've really been catered to the people who aren't or are wondering, okay, why aren't I, and how do I change the system in the same way that we, as adults who were taught by our parents, not do, you know, it's shameful to touch our bodies.
It's shameful to XYZ out. Uh, we now change that for generations behind us to say to them fully. I know that this is art grandparents. Philosophy, and this is what they were taught, but times have changed. And I'm going to tell you why, because we've learned new things, you need to touch your body for your own self care for your own wellbeing to get to go how you want to be taught.
So for those reasons alone, on top of the fact that for your health and overall wellbeing, it's a good idea as well. So I think this is where change starts. It's in. Number one unfortunate things happen and we suddenly identified. Wow. There really is a big problem. It's not just me in my own head thinking that, Oh, I'm having a one-time experience.
It's like, no, this is happening across the board. So once we realized that we have the power of technology that exists today, that didn't exist. Even when I was a kid to record things, to see things, to share things and we can share them worldwide. We don't, it's not one of those things where we only share it with our very small circle of 10 people.
Now we can, you know, put it on the air waves, like your podcast, for example, this is a great way to share this information so that when my fellow. You know, Asian brothers and sisters walked into the doctor's office and they're feeling like they're being a little slighted. We can say, no, no, this is your opportunity to actually take a stand for yourself because this isn't, it missing might be deeper than just your one situation.
There could be something systemic here and we want to tackle that. And we only do that when we speak up. And when we create courage and some bravery, even though it feels a little scary, we do it anyway. And we lean in and we say, no, doctor, I actually need you to answer some questions for me and help me get this information.
So that I can make a good decision. I want to trust you. And I believe you're good at what you do, but I, I'm not doing my job and I'm not doing right by me. If I don't ask a few questions. And if you need some of those questions, I guarantee you there's, you know, depending on whatever you're going through, find your community and someone there has probably already made a list of great questions for you to ask.
If you have not figured out what those questions are already. I love that. And I love the, just the reminder that it's okay to challenge authority. I think, you know, for me growing up, it was like the teacher's going to be the one who's right. Or whoever's in power is the one who's right. And that's not necessarily true.
So to really have that gift of critical thinking, and I love what you're saying about community as well, and being able to find that community, however, it's going to be resonant with you. So asking the questions, I was also taught, like, it's not okay to ask. Questions, you know, you don't raise your hand.
You don't like make a ruckus or whatnot, but it wasn't until I was in college that a professor encouraged me to ask questions. He's like, your questions are actually really good at, it would have helped a lot of other people had you asked them in real time. And it took me a lot of practice. I mean, now it's, you know, I interview people it's part of my profession.
So I do it as a job now and I love it, but it wasn't something that I was taught was a great asset to have. So I think you're encouraging people to. Yes, it's okay. And you can do it, you know, in the beginning, as you start to challenge authority, it might not be the most refined, but I love the way that you phrased it too, which is, I think that you are an expert.
And I would also like to advocate for my care. Like I'd also like to, you know, know that I would be doing myself a disservice. And potentially a lot of other people, if I didn't speak up for this and to kind of see if it is a systemic thing, if it's a one-off thing. And I think also not immediately internalizing like, Oh, well there must be something wrong with me.
If they're treating like this, or maybe I did something wrong. And I think that that's also kind of like a knee jerk reaction. A lot of the time is like, Well must just be me and that I did something, or maybe it's just like, you know, this experience. So to kind of have that broader lens as well. And I'm going to echo your importance, that it is amazingly important that you touch yourself and become familiar with your body and how it is now.
Emily Nagoski, she wrote this book Come As You Are. And all of her research is also like debunking a lot of like what we've been taught about like orgasm or sex or sensuality and all of those kinds of things. But I think a huge thing that she continues to keep coming back to, and she's talked to like, you know, thousands upon thousands of women is.
We all have these feelings of potential guilt and shame, whatever cultural background that we have, whatever, you know, societal imprints that we've picked up along the way, but that it is a healthy and good thing to know your body and to understand like, what does feel good? What doesn't feel good also like what's normal and what's abnormal.
And you know, I think that if you also start to embark on more mindfulness practices becoming more aware, you can start to sense more of those subtle shifts as well. And to explore different ways. Of being healthy. You were talking about thermography. That was also recommended to me by a friend of mine, you know, and I went to go get a done too.
And it was so fascinating. You could see like where your tension is, where potentially inflammation might be building before it becomes a bigger problem. And so there are these other alternatives to care, obviously. Depending on your budget or, you know, like where you live in the world, that access might be a bit different, but to not be afraid to explore what are other alternatives like if you meet a closed door or if you meet your health insurance that says, you know, women under this age, it's not traditional that you're going to get this kind of like exam.
So I think all the things that you're talking about are so important and also, you know, finding other ways to get the information that you need in terms of, if it's. Nerve-wracking for you to ask in real time and, you know, have that conversation, write it down, like, bring those questions into the office.
I think that there are other ways that you can meet yourself where you are and continue to get the results that you need to get in terms of, you know, We've talked about a lot about the breast cancer and the breast use. I'm really excited to share more information about that and being able to find that community, are there other experiences that you've had along this journey?
Because at the beginning you also mentioned, you know, you were going through a lawsuit, you're going through all these other things. Any other experiences that you'd like to kind of highlight or share along this journey of how you arrived, where you are now, you know, like a successful business woman going through the hardships, finding the joy, anything that you'd like to cover there.
For sure, for sure. I think a big piece of going through so much at once breast cancer all by itself was a bit of a doozy. And so having to, to pile on a couple more things, certainly didn't make it pleasant part of that time in my life. But having good habits and being able to wake myself up every day and say, Hey, that's, it's a new day and we get one more day.
And so as we get this day, how are we going to spend it? And what do we want to do with it? And what do we want to be remembered for? Right. Because the truth of it is none of us know how we're going to go. I've seen people survive cancer survive at two times over, and then they get in a car accident. So you just, you don't know.
Right. We don't run out, have this crystal ball that tells us definitely the, the date and the time. And so for, I think for me, that was a very shifting. Kind of place to say, Hmm, you know what? This is why we've got to save her every day. And, and that's an advocacy in itself is how we wake up and decide to show up.
Right? We're showing up for ourselves every day and also showing up for the people that were here and meant to serve also. And it doesn't have to be somewhat doesn't mean we're out building rocket ships to go to the moon. Maybe it's taking, being the best mother we can be, or the best sister we can be or being the best.
You know, partner, we can be, and it's, it's sometimes it's those things and those are what are lasting. And those are the things that actually fuel our hearts with joy and bring us the most peace at the end of the day. The going through the lawsuit. There were so many times I most definitely had to advocate for myself.
Um, uh, getting a business lawsuit that financially devastates you is definitely another life-changing experience because I certainly have this, this idea that, Oh, I've done everything right up until this point in terms of like saved my money. I haven't been overly spendy. I've lived within my means, but lived well.
I've invested. It didn't matter. All the, all that still, you know, was, was swept away in, in a moment's time, but there's still gratitude in it. And I, and people go away how her gratitude in it, if there's gratitude, because there is still a lesson there. And some of that lesson is that you can't take it with us.
Number one, and number two, what are we really waking up to do every day? And that happens, that stuff happens in the world. It does, unfortunately. But we can have a choice in our mind and in our body of how we want to look at that. Yeah. From my perspective, right. Our truths and our stories are all real to us and they are our truth.
They are our truth, no matter what, but we can change those groups and flip them at any time when it comes to our perspective, when it comes to looking at a different point of view or in just shifting out of this zone of, Oh, this war, my world is falling on top of me. It's like, no, what lessons are actually here?
And who are they here for me to share them with? Because maybe that's the bigger thing. And that takes us back to advocacy again. Because as I advocate for myself, for the healthcare community, for the breast cancer community, when I don't diminish someone else's expertise, right. Going back to the doctor, I didn't say, well, you're stupid.
You don't know what you're talking about. Answering my questions. I acknowledge you're clearly. A doctor for a reason, you went to school, you have studies. You're smart guy, but I still have questions and I need these answers. I don't have to diminish his expertise just because I'm advocating for myself, but we teach others who feel good about advocating.
We help them know that they're not alone. And I think that's the biggest part because let's take it full circle and go back to the first question he asked me, which was. How did you identify this? It's like, well, kind of by accident, you get together with a group of people and you recognize and go, Hey, we're actually not being treated fully right here.
And then now you can start to look at numbers and someone keeps statistics and someone starts keeping track to actually see what are the statistics out there actually today and who is collecting those statistics. So I think it's. All of those things. It's making those things that feel shameful. That lawsuit felt very painful.
At first, it made me question lots of things. I was like, well, the federal trade commission is coming in and acuity false advertising Watts. That's huge. I've been in this market for 20 years. Why, why this wanting it now? And then it's taking a step back and saying, I'm not going to diminish one a years, have an amazing track record for it.
To your business that we had a bad run with. And, Oh my gosh, we made an advertising mistake and we, they just chose to make a really big example of us from it. So I have to take all the lessons that come with that and shine a light on them and own them. And that's the biggest part, right? If I hide in shame or if I run off to the car, then.
Then what am I doing? I'm stuck in this really funky place of never being able to get ahead because I'm only fearful, but if I own it, then I can say, Hey, I made a mistake. This happened. And there wasn't a lot I could do about it, but you know what, I'm better for it. Then I can show up and serve in a better way.
And I can also show other people who might be hiding this thing that they think is so shameful that once they bring it to light. That there is, there can be a blessing and just releasing that energy number one, like how much energy does it take to write something into whole something in our body and just the pain that it can bring in and just the angst and the anxiety when we let it out and let it go and can just show up and say, I am my authentic self and.
My life is not the sum of all of these fordable things that have happened. I can move forward and who I am and own that, and be good with the fact that we're all human and none of us are perfect. And some of us, maybe we made some bad decisions in our life. Maybe we didn't, you know, maybe we had a bad night of drinking and we weren't supposed to do, you know, like we all are around those stories and some of them are funny, but some of them are painful.
I mean, I I'm sure you can relate to this. Judy, I had a mother who was very much about outward appearances. She said, even if we're poor, we don't have to dress like it, you know? And she'd be like a little, little lipstick and a little black, but you don't look like whole person, you know? And there were just all of this, this pressure to be like this level of beauty.
And it was so funny. Cause I was like, well, what is the definition of beauty? Is it what I'm. Seeing on billboards, is that what I see on TV? What is realistic and what is okay. And then what's actually. Like normal and good. Normally good is just to wake up feeling your best self everyday, whatever ties you are, whatever shape you are or whatever you look like.
And being able to embrace that difference because for every one person that you might look at and go, Oh, I wish I had their hair, their smile, their lips, someone else's looking at you saying the exact same thing. So it becomes this thing where it's like, just embrace who you are. Uh, it's that's such a big part of it is embrace it, own it.
Oh, God, all the things own all the ugly things. Right? Leave it, leave it all out there because it's so nice to be loved unconditionally and love for who you are, no matter what. And it totally takes the weight off of having to feel like you have to be perfect or that you have to be all these things that, that are just unattainable and quite frankly, exhausting.
Yeah. And I love that you're speaking about guilt or shame because from my experience and I encourage anybody to respond to this as well is that the more that you open up in that authenticity and that vulnerability, the more that you form a meaningful connection with someone else, because it's a shared human experience and someone else is looking for that vulnerability as well.
I used to say this a lot when I was teaching yoga that like, when you meet someone for the first time, what you're seeking within them is that authentic vulnerability. But yet ironically, it's the last thing that we ever want to share it with anybody else? Cause we're trying to protect it. We're trying to make it look like we've got it all together or whatnot.
So we're just a species of people continually looking for that connection. That's so difficult for so many people to find, but then in my experience, every single time I've opened up about it. And even in professional work environments, when I really just shown up as exactly who I am with all of my flaws and like, whatever that is, where I make the most meaningful connections I've had clients who've come back to me after 10 years after 15 years.
Cause they're like, I just really remember you. I remember what our experience was working together. And I think that that's. So valuable, because one of the questions I was going to ask you is how do you overcome that feeling of needing to be perfect or like you've made a mistake. And then what, what does this mean?
What are people going to think? And I think also the more that I've opened up to different people and the more that other experts have shared with me, There are so many people out there who are touting in illusion of what it is that we are supposed to be. So we're buying into an illusion that they themselves are not actually living up to.
Right. And that they don't have the capacity for, so then why are we doing that? Like as a whole species of people we're continually moving the goalposts or we're continually like finding reasons to feel bad about ourselves, it seems like you said very exhausting. It just does not seem like an enjoyable experience.
And as you mentioned, you know, you could do everything right. And still things are going to go awry or you know that the money you can't take it with you when you go. So what can you take? Like, what can you do? And what you can do is in every moment, just show up as this fullest expression of who you are as a curious person to experience.
All that life has to offer. Going back to Anita Moorjani’s book, you know, she had this near death experience and when she came back and wrote about it, she said, what I realized in that experience is all of this, all of the ups and downs and the heartbreaks and the disappointments for us as souls. If you believe this, but you know, your soul is this light being where like everything is always good.
And okay. Then the reason that we incarnate and come into this human experience is because this to us. It's heaven this to us to feel all the feelings, to have the whole entire spectrum of experiences and emotions. That's where we feel like, Oh my gosh, that's so incredible. And when I had read that in her book, it really reframed everything for me of, Oh, so the lessons that we acquire along the way, the hardships that we go through actually.
That's such a blessing. Like that's such a beautiful thing to get to experience because it means we're wholly alive. And that we actually opened up to be vulnerable to take a risk or be brave and like connect with someone, even if we didn't know what the outcome was going to be. So I love everything that you're sharing and I'm so grateful for, you know, All of the expertise that you brought today, as we come to a close for this interview, I want to ask you the question.
I ask all the guests, which is this idea of fuck saving face, where like, if you could share one thing where you could break through a taboo or just something that you really want to aluminate for other people, other Asian Americans, what would you say? Oh, breaks. Brill. I'm going to say that showing up in your most authentic self meaning saying what you feel, feeling, what you feel, those are the only validation that you need.
And the reason I say that is because go back to the story of the kids, making, making fun. Eight and I'll, I completely was, I don't know what they're even talking about right now when you know who you are, that really helps. That really helps because as we know who we are, it doesn't matter what anyone else says.
Right. It's our group. And we know who we are. We can move forward much more powerfully when we're moving in that piece of it, versus the idea of what we think we should be or what someone else thinks we should be. My mom has her ideas. I love my mom. I'm going to acknowledge that, but I'm also going to acknowledge the fact that her limiting beliefs are hers and they are not mine.
And I don't have to own them. So that is one way that we are able to move through life in this really beautiful, powerful way and make better decisions based around how we're feeling. And it's okay to feel all the things in my breast cancer community. We go through our ups and downs and the days of devastation and days of joy, and then back to devastation.
And I just say we are spiritual beings going through this human experience. So feel all the things. It's okay to feel all the things, but then let's remember who we are. And move forward so that we're not saying stuck in these funky places, right. Let's move on to the next feeling, which can be Holy inhalation and vivaciousness.
And this love for likes, because really it's about feeling all the things. And so let's get to the good ones too, right? Let's say we're the good moments. Just like we have to endure the bad ones. And it's that perspective. I love it. So if people want to follow up with you, where can they find you? Well, they can head over to my website at marydee.com.
That's M-A-R-Y-D-E-E. And there's great extras on there. There's some resources I've got a five day. Turn your pain into purpose challenge coming up here in April so they can, uh, join us there and got a new book coming out early summer called just eat the cake, a recipe for living your best life. So they can grab a pre-sale copy of that as well on the website.
Awesome. Wonderful. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Judy. I appreciate you. And what you're doing in the world. Thank you for being a voice for those who don't have one.
I think if you're like me, it can be really scary to challenge authority. I joke around sometimes that I still have this feeling. I don't want to get in trouble. So it's been a journey for me to learn how to speak up for myself and then subsequently encourage my daughter to do the same. And I have to be honest with you.
I know that a lot of women, they say that after they have their children, they become these like defensive bear mommas, where they'll do whatever to protect their child. I would like to say that that's what happened after I had my daughter, but it was not, I still had to learn how to put up healthy boundaries, how to protect my child, because I had a lot of deep programming to do from the way that I was raised.
So, you know, when I first had my daughter, my husband at the time, his sister had told me, I just want to let you know it's okay. If you don't bond with your child right away that with her, for her son, she bonded with him instantly. They're cut from the same cloth. And then with her daughter, it took a little bit longer.
It was a little bit different. It doesn't mean that she doesn't love both of her children. It just meant it was different. And I came back to that a lot. As a new mom, because it did take me a while. I was suffering from peri-partum depression from having hypermesis gravidarum where I was so sick that entire time.
And so, you know, later I would discover that that's considered a medical trauma and then I would be moving towards postpartum depression. So it took a while for me to really connect and find that connection with my daughter. And I think sometimes I still rely upon some outside observation to reflect back to me that, Oh yes, we do have a strong connection because I'm wanting to do the best that I can all the time.
And being in that space more than being present in the truth that we are. And. If this interview today was helpful in terms of reminding you that, you know, you have your own path, that you can speak up, that it can take practice. Then I hope that it has been helpful. And if there's anyone in your life that you think would benefit from hearing this, please do share it with them as always, I would love any five stars that you want to give me on iTunes.
I'm so grateful for all the people who've been supporting this journey along the way. Thank you for the people who are supporting on Patreon and making one-time donations and just cheering this podcast along also, thanks to my awesome podcast editor. So have a wonderful rest of your week. Whenever you're listening to this, I will see you on Friday for our mindfulness practice, where we start to tap into that inner strength to really speak up and advocate for ourselves because we are worthy.
LIKE WHAT YOU HEARD?
Help us get more content like this out into the world!
Support our podcast or make a donation here.
