EP 107: From Vietnam to Texas: Ái Vuong’s Unconventional Path to Filmmaking
Ái Vuong is a Vietnamese-born and Texas-bred filmmaker. She co-founded TÁPI Story in 2018, a production company that focuses on human-centered stories told from a systemic perspective with compassion, empathy and dignity.
“La Cosecha,” a short documentary she produced and co-wrote, premiered at SXSW as part of the Texas Shorts Competition in 2023. She is also a fellow for PBS Reel South Hindsight 2.0, and recently finished directing and producing an independent short documentary about Boca Chica beach, the “poor people’s beach,” and community members spearheading the fight against big tech in South Texas.
Ái was recently named a Tory Burch Foundation Fellow in 2023. Prior to receiving a master’s of NGO Management and Public Policy from NYU, she worked in Vietnam for 6 years on youth development and leadership. She served as the Executive Director of a local NGO in Vietnam called the Friends of Hue Foundation.
Unmasking the Filmmaker: A Conversation with Ái Vuong
As the host of the podcast, F*ck Saving Face, I recently had the pleasure of introducing a new connection to my listeners: Ái Vuong. Ái is a Vietnamese-born, Texas-bred filmmaker and co-founder of Tapestry, a production company focused on human-centered stories. Our conversation touched on a variety of topics, from cultural identity to purpose-driven storytelling, and the challenges of pursuing a creative career.
A Bicultural Childhood and a Journey into Filmmaking
Ái's journey is a fascinating one. Born in Vietnam, she immigrated to Texas at the age of five. Her childhood was bicultural, and she felt a sense of belonging both in Vietnam and Texas. In her early 20s, she returned to Vietnam and worked in a children's shelter, eventually becoming the head of the organization. This experience shaped her philosophies on life and work.
Interestingly, Ái didn't start her career in film. She initially worked in education and youth development. However, her passion for writing and storytelling led her to explore different mediums like photography. It was during a media and storytelling course in Phnom Penh that she met her partner, a fellow filmmaker. Their skill sets aligned, and they started working together, marking the beginning of Ái's journey into filmmaking.
Embracing the Filmmaker Identity
Ái admits that it took her a long time to think of herself as a filmmaker. She prefers not to be burdened with labels and enjoys activities like writing, running, yoga, and poetry, where her body is her instrument, and anyone can participate. Filmmaking, on the other hand, is labor-intensive and expensive. However, she eventually embraced the title of filmmaker and has been doing it ever since.
The Power of Storytelling and Self-Discovery
Ái's experiences have taught her the importance of stepping outside of one's comfort zone and experiencing different cultures and perspectives. She emphasizes the power of storytelling through various mediums, such as films, television, and YouTube, in expanding our understanding of the world.
Her return to Vietnam was a journey of self-discovery, helping her better understand her parents and their decisions. She encountered cultural differences, such as the conversational nature of Colombian culture compared to the more reserved Asian culture she grew up with. Ái believes in the value of questioning and understanding one's own positionality and the influences that have shaped us.
The Importance of Being Present and Curious
As the host, I found Ái's growth and curiosity inspiring. It has led to meaningful relationships and opportunities. We discussed the importance of being present, curious, and open to new experiences. This is also the motivation behind my podcast — to encourage others to explore different paths and challenge societal expectations.
Advice for Those Seeking New Experiences
Ái encourages those seeking new experiences to expose themselves to different cultures and perspectives. She believes in the importance of showing up and being brave in pursuing success, despite the challenges and internal struggles that may arise.
Masking, Neurodivergence, and Self-Care
Our conversation also touched on the concept of masking and how women, in particular, have learned to mask their true selves to appear high-functioning. We discussed the realization of being neurodivergent and the need for self-compassion and understanding in navigating a society that is not always accommodating. We emphasized the importance of creating environments that support one's well-being and finding agency in taking care of oneself.
Celebrating Small Victories
As our conversation came to a close, we celebrated small victories and the importance of self-care. I thanked my listeners for their support and encouraged them to leave a review and stay connected through my website and newsletter.
My conversation with Ái Vuong was a deep dive into the world of filmmaking, cultural identity, and self-discovery. It was a reminder of the power of storytelling and the importance of stepping outside of our comfort zones. I hope you found it as enlightening and inspiring as I did.
Episode Highlights
Judy's Shift and Introduction to New Connections (00:00:02)
Judy discusses her recent shift and introduction to new connections, including her experience with a white male accountability partner — to amplify DEI for herself.
The Power of Fostering Connections (00:02:08)
Judy reflects on the importance of fostering connections and how it has contributed to the success of her business, as well as her personal journey of understanding grief and co-parenting.
Introduction to Ái Vuong and Her Journey (00:03:19)
Judy introduces Ái Vuong, a Vietnamese-born and Texas-bred filmmaker, and discusses her background, journey, and work in the film industry.
The Journey to Filmmaking (00:11:12)
Ái Vuong discusses her journey into filmmaking, exploring different forms of storytelling, and her gradual shift into thinking of herself as a filmmaker.
Purpose-Driven Filmmaking (00:13:01)
Ái Vuong talks about her approach to filmmaking, which focuses on social impact storytelling, centering voices that are not typically heard, and creating new imagination through film.
Highlighting Stories of Trauma (00:16:07)
Ái Vuong shares a powerful example of a short film she created that highlights the trauma experienced by children orphaned from the extrajudicial killings in the Philippines, emphasizing the importance of portraying such stories with compassion and empathy.
The Journey of Self-Discovery (00:21:32)
Ái Vuong reflects on her career and personal growth, discussing the importance of storytelling and understanding one's own positionality and cultural influences.
Cultural Differences in Communication (00:23:13)
Ái Vuong shares her experience of growing up in a culture where conversations were limited and the contrast with the conversational nature of Colombian culture.
The Power of Curiosity and Imagination (00:24:45)
Judy and Ái Vuong discuss the value of curiosity, imagination, and exposure to new experiences in shaping one's perspective and expanding possibilities.
The challenges of pursuing a creative career (00:32:37)
Discussion on the struggles and doubts that arise when pursuing a creative career, and the importance of showing up despite these challenges.
The mask we wear and the difficulty of being seen (00:33:18)
Exploration of how women, in particular, have learned to mask their true selves and the difficulty of being seen for who they truly are.
Understanding our own needs and creating a supportive environment (00:34:50)
Judy emphasizes the importance of self-reflection, understanding our own needs, and creating a supportive environment to thrive and function at our best.
Links Mentioned:
Transcript:
Judy Tsuei (00:00:02) - Welcome to the F*ck Saving Face podcast, where we're empowering mental and emotional health for Asian Americans and voices of color by breaking through taboo topics. Life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. Make your story beautiful today. So if you haven't heard lately, the last two episodes that were not interviews for me, sharing elements of my story, of my book and there's been a shift recently. I'm so, so grateful that someone from LinkedIn reached out to me and he wanted to be my accountability partner. And I will tell you first and foremost that I was questioning this like, we are all so busy. Why is someone you know who's a white male of all things, wanting to support me in getting my story out? And the more that I've interacted with him and worked with him, the more that he simply introduced me to incredible human beings around the world. Literally this morning we were on a call and I was talking to someone who's a couple decades older than me who was living in Ireland.
Judy Tsuei (00:01:06) - I loved seeing behind him this stone fireplace, and he was telling me about this little cottage that they're renovating. It's so fantastic. And what was remarkable is the fact that I know that in any circumstance and situation that I go into, that I will be able to find some sort of common ground with the person that I'm speaking with, that somehow we will be able to have conversation, even if our backgrounds are completely different, even if our age ranges are completely different and, you know, our genders are different and all that, I know that we will have shared experiences and what was articulated today by this person who's advocating for my book to get published is the fact that it's because I'm a continual learner, that I want to learn about everything and anything. And I'm actually really, really curious about everything that there is. So this personal, innate drive has really served me well in terms of fostering connections, becoming a super connector, enabling it so that my entire business is built on word of mouth referrals.
Judy Tsuei (00:02:08) - And I've never had to do outbound marketing. This last quarter of this year has been the most profitable and lucrative yet. And when I look at my FreshBooks, I can see that the trajectory is just continually arching upward. And it's as a divorced mom and someone who's gone through really challenging moments, even just recently in terms of co-parenting and, you know, my ex-husband and just even my inner journey of understanding, grief and understanding, hey, you know what? I am finally at a place in my life where I have the bandwidth to understand that, oh my goodness, I'm grieving for the first time losing my daughter half the time, and that in the choices that I made to be in a mentally healthy state, that it meant that I had to leave my marriage. And it also meant that that means that I have to share my daughter with someone else. And half the time I don't know what's happening in her life other than what she shares with me, other than, you know, if I if we have a conversation about it and stuff like that.
Judy Tsuei (00:03:19) - So I'm here to share once again, the thing that I say so often that life may not always be pretty, but it is indeed beautiful. And you can make your story beautiful today. And that's why I'm very, very excited to bring a fellow 2023 Tory Burch Foundation Woman Entrepreneur into today's interview. So I'm interviewing AI Wang, who's a Vietnamese born and Texas bred filmmaker. She co-founded tapestry in 2018, and you'll be able to hear in the interview why it's called that. It's a production company that focuses on human centered stories told from a systemic perspective with compassion, empathy and dignity. And she's had films that have premiered at South by Southwest as part of the Texas Shorts competition in 2023. She's a fellow for the PBS Real South, Hindsight 2.0, and she's traveled around the world telling different people's stories. What I have really appreciated it is her storytelling in terms of how she got into this work. She was in NGO management and public policy. She worked in Vietnam for six years on youth development and leadership.
Judy Tsuei (00:04:31) - She served as the executive director of a local NGO in Vietnam. And she'll tell you that, you know, someone at that age running a foundation like that. It was probably beyond her scope of what she was able to do, or what she thought that she had the skillset in the capacity to do. And yet, you know, we all rise to the occasion. So I wanted to showcase her story because not only do we have a shared mutual friend in common who's worked for both of our companies, but she's a filmmaker, and I've always been fascinated by people who are pursuing the creative arts as a full time profession. So perhaps that's also you. Maybe you were raised understanding and expecting that the tried and true, you know, path of the left brained, rational, logical thinking. Was the right way to go. And so we unravel all of those things. And I'm excited for you to hear her story today, and that if you are a creative soul and you're looking for more inspiration to normalize that journey, then I hope that this story and this interview will help you feel less alone in pursuit of good work out there, of doing good work and highlighting stories that need to be told.
Judy Tsuei (00:05:52) - Well, today we have a very exciting guest. So I first met I when we were in the Tory Burch Fellowship together, which we are currently still in. And when I learned about what she does, it's so fascinating to me because I grew up in LA, so I was always around film and always around this industry. But then interestingly enough as well, my friend and former team member, she's the one who told me to apply for Tory Burch, who is now also working for I. So she also.
Ai Vuong (00:06:25) - Told me to apply for Tory Burch Fellowship.
Judy Tsuei (00:06:27) - And it's been a wonderful experience, but I'm going to turn it over to I just to share about she's, you know, a film maker and educator, the co-founder of TAPI Story. And when I dove in, in a one on one conversation, just to kind of learn about the types of films that she produces, it was absolutely amazing because it's so purpose driven. And I feel like today, more than ever, we are looking for purpose and meaning and creating things that are not just generated by AI, but also, you know, in the world that we live in evermore, I think it's vital to share stories and to develop that sense of compassion and empathy, which storytelling does.
Judy Tsuei (00:07:07) - So I'm going to turn it over to AI to share a bit about your cultural background, and a bit about just kind of how you got into where you are now. It's a big question.
Ai Vuong (00:07:20) - It is a big question. And every time somebody asked me that, I always think, where is the starting point? Because I think stories within, when I think in frames or even as a writer, it's like, what? What is the beginning? What is the first sentence that you want to to share? But I am Vietnamese. I was born in Vietnam in the Mekong. So I say that I have coconut running through my blood. And my parents and I emigrated to Texas when I was five. And, you know, I had a really typical childhood, 1.5 generation, however, that is defined now. But it's yeah, very bicultural growing up and learning, how did we end up in Texas like this very Vietnamese family. But then to learn that Texas is full of Vietnamese immigrants and is full of immigrants.
Ai Vuong (00:08:16) - And yeah, I mean, I spent so much of my growing up years feeling like how, yeah, just how did I end up here? And which resulted in, in my early 20s, going back to Vietnam and living and working and feeling more at home there than I, than where I grew up for most of my life. And it was in Vietnam that I was doing work, living and working in a children's shelter with an organization called Friends of Hoy. And through that I became the deputy director, and then eventually the head of that organization for a couple of years at a really, really young age, like too young to be taking care of 30 children and kind of thinking about their futures when I could barely, like, imagine what my future was going to look like. But it was such a fundamental, life altering experience that really shaped my my philosophies on on life and on the way that I wanted to work. And but I didn't start off in film. I started off in education and youth development and eventually found my way to film in my early 30s.
Judy Tsuei (00:09:32) - And similar to what you did, where you went back to Vietnam. I also went back to Taiwan, and I even lived in China, and my parents were like, what are you doing? Like they work so hard to come over here to the US and they're like, why are you doing that? Did you also get the same experience from your family or what did they feel about you doing that?
Ai Vuong (00:09:52) - I think a lot of people did not understand why I wanted to go back, because the the thing that I remember everyone saying was, why do you want to go back? We left for a reason. Why do you want to go back? And I think it was definitely still I mean, this was almost 20 years ago, so it was definitely still that era of things opening up and changing. And I mean, it's amazing to reflect on how how things have shifted in 20 years because now it's very trendy and really there's so much opportunity and it makes even makes like better business and like lifestyle choices to, to live in Southeast Asia or live in it, you know, live in somewhere else.
Ai Vuong (00:10:37) - But when I was doing that, it was it still felt really foreign, like I remember somebody asking me, are you going to have internet in Vietnam? And I was like, I'm, I'm moving a. Across the world. I'm not going back in time. There's better internet there, and there is here. But it's still like the cultural shift has been so profound over the last few years. But I definitely remember a lot of resistance. Mhm.
Judy Tsuei (00:11:07) - And how did you move from education to film I.
Ai Vuong (00:11:12) - Well when you're working for a small NGO you kind of just end up doing everything. And I was doing comms, I was doing program design, I was doing leadership development, I was just doing all of the things and educating myself for most of it. But I have always been a writer and explored photography. So I explored storytelling in very, very different ways. But the way that I got into film, which I never, I never imagined myself being a filmmaker because I am a person who really, really likes not having the burden of things.
Ai Vuong (00:11:50) - So I like writing. I like running, I like yoga, I like poetry, like anything that you can do. Your your body is your instrument and it is economical and anybody can do it. So I've always been that type of person for as filmmaking is such a labor and expensive endeavor. But I signed up for a media and storytelling course in Phnom Penh eight years ago. And and then I met my partner, who has also been a filmmaker, and then when then we just started kind of working together because our skill sets really aligned. And then eventually, you know, it has taken me many years to shift into thinking of myself as a filmmaker because I think, like with anything, I'm not a type of person who can say, like, I'm this thing, and then I feel like I'm that thing. It takes me a really long time to act out the verb of filmmaking or, you know, running or anything that I. It takes me a very long time to feel like I can call myself that.
Ai Vuong (00:12:57) - But yeah, that's how I got into it and have been doing it ever since.
Judy Tsuei (00:13:01) - I love that you said that you are a person who does not like the burden of things, like, I've never heard it put that way, and I think it's such a lovely expression of, you know, I mean, aside from materialism and whatnot, just like you as a vessel being the creative being to create the story to, you know, create the action and the results and all of that. And when I would love to learn about the type of filmmaking that you do, because it's not like mainstream commercial, you know, that kind of storytelling. So, you know, I feel like, again, as I introduced to you, it's very purpose driven and it's highlighting stories that need to be told and stories that need to be, you know, heard. And you recently won an award, did you not? Or you recently and launched another film?
Ai Vuong (00:13:51) - Yeah. This year we've premiered a couple of short films.
Ai Vuong (00:13:54) - Yeah. You know, I'm somebody who thinks about social justice quite a lot, and that is part of the reason why I think about equity and thinking about art as being the most one of the most radical things you can do. Because I work or have worked in international development for a very long time, I am constantly thinking about the distribution of resources and part of why I don't want to be burdened with things because it feels like you need, obviously you need resources to do things. But why? Poetry, for example, is such a radical form. Art form is because you just need a pen and a or a pencil and a piece of paper and why it is accessible to everybody. And so that for me is thinking through how can we share stories and, and just have different voices currently in our media landscape. So part of why our production company focuses on social impact, storytelling and films that are really human centered and that are trying to center voices that are not typically heard, is because so much of that is also about access.
Ai Vuong (00:15:10) - And in our media nowadays, there's just so much content. And how do we break through the content that is there and really share different perspectives and yeah, in different voices. Because for me, it's storytelling. And film is such a beautiful medium because it helps create a new imagination when you're seeing things that you didn't, you had never envisioned to be possible. Or when you're hearing people share their stories where you have never experienced it before, it opens up just a different way of thinking and a different way of being. And I think that. Is ultimately how you make social change.
Judy Tsuei (00:15:54) - That's so beautifully expressed. Can you tell me some of the stories that you've highlighted in the films that you've created, that have really made an impact on you? That's a great.
Ai Vuong (00:16:07) - Question, and I keep thinking back to this one really short two minute film that we did in 2018 when we were approached by researchers in Manila at the University of Ateneo and Miriam College, and they were doing research on memory work of children orphaned from the extrajudicial killings in the Philippines that was happening in 2016 and 17.
Ai Vuong (00:16:36) - And a lot of the media was around the act of violence that was occurring. But their work was about how does the trauma, once the actual act is finished, what is the trauma that is left over for the family members and especially the children? So if there were, you know, if one person dies, for example, you know, it could affect 5 to 9 other people who are part of their immediate family. So it was about how do we share that in a way that was respectful, like we had to film in the little alleyways where a lot of these deaths happened and we had to film it while protecting the identity of these children. And it was just so powerful for me because, you know, it's such a it's, it's a it's just one of those situations where you're like, why am I here? How am I here? And how can I, as an outsider, just do the best that I can to portray this in a way that is the most compassionate and empathetic possible? And I feel like we find ourselves in that situation quite a lot.
Ai Vuong (00:17:54) - So a lot of my reflection on storytelling is just, yeah, representation and how and power dynamics and how what is interpreted on through our lens and then reinterpret it back onto the screen and how that is then reinterpreted through the audience member. Just what is that process and how we can do it with as much intention as possible?
Judy Tsuei (00:18:20) - I mean, because of the depth of like the topics that you work on and the people who you encounter and the different cultural backgrounds and the lens. What are some kind of just key takeaways that in terms of this work about equity and about access to resources? And, you know, I feel like there are a lot of people in the world who want to do right and do good and aren't really sure in today's time how to make that kind of impact with whatever resources they have available, whether that's time or money or energy or, you know, and I think it just seems to me that the career that you've had has lent to a lot of valuable life lessons and being able to like, you know, see things from a different perspective to have such a wide lens through.
Judy Tsuei (00:19:15) - I always tell people, you know, if you can go live abroad, go live somewhere else, because not only do you perceive your home country differently since you're around other people who have a, you know, perception of where it is that you came from, but you get to see exactly like what other people have, like, you know, their qualities of life and whatnot. And so to just be in one place, even, you know, if you lived in California and then you went to New York, like that broadens your view. But I think it's so different when you go to a different country, like especially Asia, to see what people are dealing with, what types of opportunities are available. It just there was a term when I moved back from China that was there was like a training so that you could repatriate back to your home country. And I was like, that's so weird. Why would you need to do that? You came from that country. But when I got back to the US, I was like, oh my gosh, it feels like I landed on another planet.
Judy Tsuei (00:20:13) - Like it's just the things that I had seen and like the disparity with which I saw so much. Um, it was a very jarring kind of experience. So I understood now, like, oh, that's why they have that course. So just for you, going back to the question of like the life lessons and the things that you've learned, what kind of key takeaways do you feel like would be valuable for other people to also understand?
Ai Vuong (00:20:38) - I have been so fortunate in my life to I mean, I didn't go abroad until I was 17 when I came back to Vietnam for the first time. So I had a very Texas suburban. Childhood growing up, and the furthest we could go was I grew up in Dallas and we had family in Houston, so our family vacations were like Galveston, which is not a great beach, but it's a beach. It's in Texas. And it honestly wasn't until, like in college where I was like, I'm going to study abroad and I don't care what it takes, but it has taken me a very long time to learn also that not everybody has that choice and or not everybody has the position to do that, because at that time I wasn't tied to anything.
Ai Vuong (00:21:32) - You know, I didn't have to take care of my family, etc.. So while I also agree with you that I think if people have the opportunity to, they should definitely take to get outside of your understanding of yourself and live somewhere and experience something different. But also part of why I really think storytelling is so fundamental to the way that we shape our lives and our imaginations is because you can learn and experience so much through films and television and YouTube and videos. So I think about those two parallels quite often. But in terms of our work now and, and how I've also been able to somehow finagle a career where I this year alone, I was in Peru, Ecuador and Mexico, all doing work and projects, and I've been to Papua New Guinea, to Malawi. And honestly, you're like, I don't know. I really don't know how that happened, but I think it's not where you are, but it's also the people and the conversations that you get to meet and really always, always doing that work on yourself to understand what is my positionality, why do I think the way that I do what culturally, socially, institutionally has shaped me? You know, part of why I went back to Vietnam was just to understand my parents more and to really help reframe the decisions that they made when I was really young, and to have more empathy about why they made those decisions.
Ai Vuong (00:23:13) - So, for example, I'm a Chatty Cathy now, but I was not raised to have conversations because culturally, my parents were raised at a time where it was very Confucian, where it was disrespectful to talk to your parents. So it was very it was a very internal, very Asian in the sense of there's so much unsaid. And you have to learn to to feel the depth of meaning in between each word. But I didn't understand that for so long. Growing up in the US in this very conversational culture. And then I also married into a Colombian culture. And Colombian culture is so conversational where I would, you know, my, my partner would call his parents and then 30 minutes later, I'm like calling my dad. I'm like, I don't know what they're talking about. Like, why are they talking for so long? Because I will call my dad and we'll be done in two minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:24:18) - Yes, same.
Ai Vuong (00:24:21) - I mean, I feel like I just went on a really long tangent here, but I think in terms of life lessons, it's just really being able to question and approach with curiosity yourself and why you make the decisions that you make or why you're acting the way that you're acting, and what is helping shape where you are at any, at any point in time.
Ai Vuong (00:24:45) - And I know you do a lot of work in that, in helping people, kind of being aware of the conscious and unconscious cues and in your own head and your own body. But I think that's so helpful when you are, you know, when you're in a Moroccan market and experiencing life and you're smelling all these different things and how thinking like, oh, that, that in itself shapes how one acts.
Speaker 4 (00:25:10) - Mhm.
Judy Tsuei (00:25:11) - Mhm. I love what you're saying about you know, now you're a chatty Cathy and before you were not. And I think that sense of curiosity and conversation can go so far and trying to shelve whatever it is that you think and just continually asking questions, I feel like that ability to be curious, to be really present, has led to so many gifts, from establishing relationships with people from, you know, having them also have such a positive impression of you because you were showing up and listening and holding space for that and allowing them to also go through their own experience of. Processing and storytelling and sharing and whatnot, and it's amazing that you've traveled around the world and had all of these experiences.
Judy Tsuei (00:26:00) - And, you know, that kind of leads to the reason that I started this podcast was because it was what is not being said that needs to be said, as well as I wish that when I was younger, I had someone telling me, like, it's okay if you want to veer left and do something very different from whatever everybody else told you, especially your parents. And like you said, like, you know, you grew up in Texas and so you went from A to B and then, you know, kind of met in the middle to go to the beach. And if that's all we know, we don't know that there are so many other opportunities and paths that we can take. And so my hope is that anybody who's younger listening to this, or even if you're reinventing yourself at any age, that there's still other ways that you can explore the world and be given that your background, you know, wasn't something that was like, go pursue film and go do this thing that's so creative.
Judy Tsuei (00:26:55) - What kind of advice would you give to somebody else who is, you know, either fortuitously finding themselves in opportunities where they get to travel around the world or just putting themselves in the right places or showing up? Like, what would you offer to someone if they wanted to find themselves or find what the world has to offer?
Ai Vuong (00:27:17) - Oh man. Also, Judy, with a great question. So I, I learned this also in my experience working at the children's shelter where it was, it was 2005. And, you know, growing up in the US, we are also we are so privileged to be exposed to so many things. And, you know, a lot of us, and especially me as an Asian woman still deals with, you know, when I graduated and I went to grad school, I finished grad school and my mom, like, slipped me a newspaper that was like, oh, pharmacists make $80,000 a first year. And I was like, mom, I've already graduated grad school. It's too late.
Ai Vuong (00:27:57) - It's too late for me to change careers. But I did change my career later. But that's fine. You know, I was in Vietnam at a time before mass internet and like all these different exposures where a lot of my kids, because they came from a disadvantaged background, you know, if you ask them what they wanted to be when they grew up, they would say, teacher, because that or, you know, insert any like teacher or whatever, because that was all that they could imagine themselves being and that was all that they saw was modeled. And so I made it my mission to, to really help them identify like, oh, you're skilled at this. Could you be an architect? Could you like bringing in different language? And and again, I go back to imagination because unless you can imagine it, then you can't act on it. And so what I would say is, for those of us who. Have access to. Just expose yourself to as many, many things as possible.
Ai Vuong (00:29:02) - And again, why I love film is that you watch a film and then you're like, I never knew, I've never seen this before in my life. And then when you've never seen or heard something like before in your life, you can now imagine it being possible, right? Like you can imagine. You know yourself, covered in flowers and like running through the fields. Or you can imagine like an Asian woman being a scientist, but not in the way that it's in like mass media, where it's like every female scientist has to wear glasses and be completely hot. Like, you know, I think it's just really like, listen to new music, like make yourself a little bit uncomfortable. And I know that's really difficult. And I also deal with a lot of my own anxieties and depression and neuro divergence. But, you know, really thinking about the question is how can I how can I learn something new or experience something new every single day so that you are constantly allowing yourself to imagine more? Mhm.
Judy Tsuei (00:30:10) - I love that I live well and I know that, you know, now for anybody exposed to diversity equity and inclusion work there's the understanding like representation matters but representation matters so that you can have that imagination so that you can see like oh that is a possibility. And that is like I didn't even know, you know. So I love what it is that you're saying about that. So I always ask everybody when I close the interview of if you had to say fuck saving face to something, what would you say fuck saving face about? Is there any taboo thing? Is there any, you know, tried and true quote unquote, like common perception about things that you would just be like, ah, screw it. Like do something else or think another.
Ai Vuong (00:31:01) - Way, I could list you a hundred things where I would say, fuck saving face two, because honestly, just like, fuck saving face. Yeah, yeah, as a whole. Maybe I will say what is present and alive in me right now, in this moment, is fuck waiting for somebody else to tell your story.
Ai Vuong (00:31:22) - Like fuck. Waiting for feeling like you need to preserve political, you know, sensitivity or fuck feeling like you need to protect other people's feelings and just really work on sharing your own voice in whatever medium that makes sense to you, whether that's in art or whether that's, you know, on TikTok videos or whatever. But do obviously do it in a way that is that is compassionate and intentional and hopefully critical. But yeah, fuck it, do do the thing.
Judy Tsuei (00:32:02) - And thank you so much for sharing that. You know, you have also dealt with like depression and anxiety and I, I mean, in the neurodivergent, like I have only recently been told by a therapist like you may have ADHD, I'm like, I am 45 years old. And you were telling me now that, like, I potentially, you know, but then once I had that, I was like, oh, that makes so much sense as to why I operate the way that I do and like to understand, like, oh, so the uphill battle that I felt for different things, like maybe that's just because my brain is like wired differently.
Judy Tsuei (00:32:37) - And so I think that a lot of us see people who are achieving some sort of success and, you know, putting themselves out there and whatnot is like, oh, well, they can do that. And I can't do that for whatever reason. But I think so many of us do it anyway. We're just like, we deal with these things. We have these like, feelings and we're still showing up. And I think that that is one of the bravest things that anybody can do. And to like, give yourself a lot of compassion for that as well. But I'm grateful that you, um, yeah. Share that, because I just normalizing like all of us have stuff. We all have stuff.
Ai Vuong (00:33:18) - You know, I, I love that you said that because I was just having this conversation with my family about how all the different ways that each of us mask and how and I'm learning as women in particular, like, we have just learned to mask. And even though we appear to be high functioning, a lot of people don't realize how difficult it is to get to what people see.
Judy Tsuei (00:33:42) - Yes.
Ai Vuong (00:33:43) - And how. Yeah. And honestly, I only found I only had the realization that I probably am neurodivergent at a Costco where I was just literally, like, so overstimulated. And then just like. Walking around Costco is being like, I think I'm neurodivergent. It all makes sense now. I think I am and, you know, understanding that it's not because you're sensitive or what or whatever. Because also what society tells you about how you're you should be. Yeah. I am such a firm believer that our modern society, all of our institutions were not made for us. They were they were just not made for us to be in community, to thrive, to to feel loved and to feel like we have it in ourselves and in each other to to again imagine another, another way that it could be. So I think it's so important for us to, to do some of that work and quiet reflection and having that compassion for our own selves and to understand, oh, maybe I get migraines because I'm sensitive to light.
Ai Vuong (00:34:50) - And this is how, again, I get to work from home. So I've created an environment for myself where I'm not feeling depressed under fluorescent lights every day. But it's just, how can you do that for yourself in small and big ways? Mhm.
Judy Tsuei (00:35:08) - Yeah, I love that. Uh my, my daughter and I, she's eight now so she's almost nine. And we're having these like moments of conflict. And her response to certain stimuli can be like really you know on a traditional scale would be like very extreme, like the response doesn't match the stimulus or the, you know, action. And what I've understood now is those are like demonstrations of overwhelm because the brain is processing it like differently. So it's not like she's trying to be difficult or anything like that. It's just more like, you know, similar to I get short when I don't have the quiet time, the dim light, like all of whatever I need to feel good and safe. Like she also feels like that she just, you know, was a smaller person so it doesn't have all of the freedom to create whatever she needs in that moment or the agency.
Judy Tsuei (00:36:08) - Yeah. The agency. Yeah. And so no matter how much I like, encourage her to be independent, like just her moving through the world she's already absorbing so much. So by the time she comes to me, who is a safe space, then she's like, oh, like, you know, like, I will do this with you at home. I won't necessarily do this at school because I know, you know, like, but I think that if we just understood more of like, the reason we respond or react in a certain way may not be directly correlated to the thing that's happened. It could just be like a story that we've held on to of all of these other things, just to function through the world, just to like be like, okay, for me to show up and do work. And it was funny. I just got off a client call yesterday, and she's also a friend of mine, but she was like, just out of curiosity after this, like 90 minute call, what are you going to do now? And I'm like, well, I'm going to go hop into the next thing that I have to do for like work stuff.
Judy Tsuei (00:37:00) - And she goes, really? Because I'm going to get in that bed, you see behind me, and I'm just going to go like right down there. And so, you know, like I'm like, yeah, me as a business owner, I know that there are other things that I need to do. And then how do I make sure that I'm like, the other day I was like, and I'm going to go for a walk to soak up some sun, just because I know that that would be the best thing for me to do right now. So giving yourself permission to do those things so that you can function like, you know, as best as possible. Yeah.
Ai Vuong (00:37:31) - And honestly, how beautiful it is that your daughter has you also trying to learn all of that alongside her. What a beautiful privilege that is. Because, you know, I didn't grow up like that and it wasn't the fault of my parents. They just didn't have the tools and resources. And also, like God, how hard it is to I can feel proud of myself that I've done that once.
Ai Vuong (00:37:52) - And then the next day you're like, oh, it's really hard again, because there's so much that changes every single day. But I again, it's learning to celebrate those small victories when when you do get to do that and do get to lie down and you know, as anytime that you get to lie down, go lie down. Yeah.
Judy Tsuei (00:38:15) - Seriously, I was listening to a YouTube thing and it was like, just go take a nap. Just go take a nap. I'm like, I don't even like naps. But lying down, man, it's like, great.
Ai Vuong (00:38:26) - Yeah, I'm lie down on the floor all the time.
Judy Tsuei (00:38:28) - Oh so good. It's so like, yeah, like when we yoga and stuff. I was like, dude, when I'm in child's pose and my forehead is on the ground, that feels like so nice. It just feels so nice. Yeah. Supported. Thank you so much for your time today. If people want to follow up with you, where can they find you?
Ai Vuong (00:38:46) - This is also a great question because I'm not great on social media.
Ai Vuong (00:38:49) - So you can email me at i@tapestry.com or. Also on Instagram at at its underscore I momo.
Judy Tsuei (00:39:01) - Awesome. And if people want to watch the films that you've created or can they watch those films?
Ai Vuong (00:39:07) - So we have some of our films on our website. Top story. Com t api story. Com or again email me. Yeah, I'm happy to send stuff that is currently in the festival circuit or will be released soon.
Judy Tsuei (00:39:25) - That's awesome. And can you tell me how did you come up with the name of your company?
Ai Vuong (00:39:29) - So Top story is a portmanteau of talking piece, and talking piece is used in a lot of indigenous communities like the conch shell or any piece where in community, in circle. Hopefully when you are holding it, you are the person invited to speak. And when you're not holding it, you are invited to listen. And I think that it serves as a really beautiful metaphor for us because we use talking pieces in all of our meetings, but also this concept of listening first. Mhm.
Judy Tsuei (00:40:04) - I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Thanks, Judy. Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. Next week I will follow up with another excerpt of my memoir. I have it blocked out in my calendar to write this every day. I have actually an idea to use social media to just test it out. You know, I was blogging for a really long time before. One of the elements that I really love about blogging is that I can write, publish, and gain this interaction and this feedback with my audience. So I want to see if sharing these stories, which, by the way, I have people all over the country, all around the world, who are telling me that they're listening to these excerpts from my book and they're not who I thought were in my target market, but telling me how much of a difference it's making, how much they can resonate with that, how much the core emotion that's there that I'm describing, even if they haven't had the shared experience, they know what that feels like in the moment that I'm describing it.
Judy Tsuei (00:41:04) - So I am very excited to continue to release these chapters of works in progress of my book, and we are getting ready to move into 2024. So wherever you are in the world, if you're listening to this, thank you so much. And if you like what you hear, please do share this with someone else in your life. Please, you know, visit my website Wild Hearted Words. Com or find me on LinkedIn where I'm talking a lot about, you know, all that I'm doing in addition to the newsletter that I share called The Heartbeat. I wish you the happiest of holidays. I have known often of how lonely it feels to be, you know, present during this time. And so I want you to know that you're not alone and that there's so much light and love coming your way. I wish you the very best. And I will see you in the next episode. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you'd like to support me and this show, please go to iTunes and leave your review.
Judy Tsuei (00:42:06) - It means so much to me and it'll help others find this podcast. I'll catch you in the next episode, and if you'd like to stay in touch between now and then, please visit Wild Heart Words Dot Com and sign up for my weekly newsletter. I've had people share with me that it's the best thing to arrive in their inbox all week. Aloha.
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